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The Forum > General Discussion > Is not Allowing Ukraine to join NATO the right decision?

Is not Allowing Ukraine to join NATO the right decision?

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Taiwan already is a part of China.
The One-China policy was agreed to by Nixon.
China wants peaceful reunification and the date it had set for this to happen is 2049.
The US wants to provoke a war with anyone that can rival it, to maintain its global hegemony.

"We are already in WWIII and NATO can win it with conventional weapons - but if Putin initiates a nuclear phase then no problem, that will truly be the end of his U.S.S.R. (of America too maybe, but isn't this what you want all along?)"

This may be the opening scenes of WWIII but there's no real declarations of war by anyone yet, so saying that is a little premature. Russia and China are not going to be conquered.

If the United States (and the collective West) can't defend Ukraine, then they certainly cant win a land war in China 11000 klms across the Pacific. How will they supply their armies and refuel their naval forces?

The people and nations of the world want a multi-polar world, not a uni-polar world, and there's nothing the United States and the collective West can do to stop it, except bully, threaten and coerce everyone, which incidentally is the exact reason why they've past their use-by date and nations are fed up.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 8 August 2023 8:51:05 AM
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"...America too maybe, but isn't this what you want all along?"

No, I don't want to see America destroyed, but I would like to see it change its ways.

It needs to learn to accept merely having a seat at the global table rather than sitting at the head of the table.

The United States rules with threats, blackmail, regime change and military intervention.
It defends it global hegemony (imperialist empire) with liberal interventions under the cover of 'democracy', 'humanitarianism' and 'human rights'.

It cares not about people or cultures.
Look at it's own lack of healthcare and its homeless.
It wishes to impose a new global culture upon everyone.

It does not have 'partners', it respects no-one but itself.
Countries are merely tools to help achieve its foreign policy.
- Used and discarded when necessary.

Perfect example is the destruction of the Nordsteam pipline.
The US is happy to see Germany deindustrialised and German people freezing to force the German government to stay on course and to impose harm on Russia and prop up it's bottom line.

It's funds opposition groups which are often the worst kind of people you can find.
Remember Pol Pot?

It does not comprehend 'treat others the way you would like to be treated'.

It has no qualms whatsoever about fighting to the last Ukrainian, for it's foreign policy aims against Russia.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 8 August 2023 9:29:37 AM
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AC,

None of Ukraine wanted Russian occupation. The polls they held were completely fraudulent and carried no weight at all.

Similarly, Taiwan was part of China prior to 1949 but has split off to become a thriving democracy. Sure China wants to peacefully occupy and subjugate the Taiwanese, but the US is not going to allow the same oppression of the Taiwanese as happened to those in Hong Kong.

Any war would have to be started by the Chinese as the US has no intention of attacking China.
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 8 August 2023 11:22:25 AM
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Dear Critic,

You seem to view everything through the prism of hating the United States of America. While I don't like them either, there are so many other considerations which I find more important.

«Russia doesn't want to occupy territory where the citizens are against it.»

Well nobody does, so either convert them, evict them or kill them - Russia (also China) has no moral inhibitions for either.

«What Putin wants is 'Security Assurances'»

So he can securely poison his political opponents even overseas (and incidentally some other innocent people who happen to be close by) with radioactive and chemical substances?

«The US wasn't satisfied with the fall of the USSR.»

I don't know nor care whether or not they were - who are they anyway?
They, or some of them, might possibly want to "pick up the corpse", who knows, but they never did so in practice (the ones to pick up that corpse were Russian oligarchs).

«Taiwan already is a part of China.
The One-China policy was agreed to by Nixon.»

Here again you seem to be consumed by your negative admiration of the United States of America: so one American said something stupid and you jump to attention?

The Taiwanese people were the few who managed to escape the holocaust of the Chinese cultural revolution and made a shelter for themselves in that island. In this regard, and no matter even if all Americans shouted and stomped their feet in unison in agreement with China, I rather follow (and recommend the American Bible-bashers to also follow) the Biblical statement: "Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant which is escaped from his master unto thee." [Deuteronomy 23:15]

[continued...]
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 8 August 2023 1:02:24 PM
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[...continued]

«China wants peaceful reunification»

So does the wolf wish to reunite with the lamb, peacefully in their stomach. We must not allow them!

«This may be the opening scenes of WWIII but there's no real declarations of war by anyone yet»

You must mean "World-War", because almost every other country agrees that this is a war.
Well there have been no such early declarations in WWI and WWII either.

«If the United States (and the collective West) can't defend Ukraine»

For a fact they can and do - Ukraine is still there, it has not yet perished (Shche ne vmerla Ukrainy)!

And even if Kiev falls, heaven forbid, then the battles will continue over Warsaw, Berlin, Stockholm, Paris and London.

«they certainly cant win a land war in China»

Correct, and very unfortunate for the Chinese people and those they conquered already. If anyone can help, that may be India.

«The people and nations of the world want a multi-polar world»

I for one do not want any "poles", and certainly not a Chinese pole.

«Look at it's own lack of healthcare and its homeless.»

More importantly, I look at the fact that the U.S.A has the highest rate of incarceration in the world.

Yet one evil does not justify another: that so many Americans languish in jail does not justify the imprisonment in Russia and China of anyone who disagrees with the regime.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 8 August 2023 1:02:28 PM
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"None of Ukraine wanted Russian occupation. The polls they held were completely fraudulent and carried no weight at all."

So you are trying to tell me that the Russian speaking people in the LPR and the DPR after having their homes, kindergartens and coffee shops bombed relentlessly for 8 years by the Ukrainian Nazi Banderite government installed after the 2013/2014 western sponsored coup, did not seek an end to the years of bombing, and did not seek autonomy and welcome Russian protection when the Ukrainian regime considered them terrorists?

What have you been smoking today?

And that Crimeans did not overwhelmingly wish to join Russia after seeing those same Ukrainian Nationalist Banderites burn people to death in the Odessa Trade building?

Tell me how many videos have you watched of what the people in the Donbass themselves actually want and think themselves?

I think ZERO.
- Because if you'd seen just one, you wouldn't be saying that.

"Similarly, Taiwan was part of China prior to 1949 but has split off to become a thriving democracy."

Taiwan (Republic of China) 'split' off after a failed civil war;
- Though it's probably better to say that after a failed civil war, the losers went to regroup on Taiwan, and they still have ambitions of ruling China.

I'll give you some leeway on this one, as the 'Taiwanese' people largely see themselves as Taiwanese, separate from Chinese.

But the Taiwanese still have many relatives on the mainland, and they still rely very much on trade with China. Moreover, the Taiwanese people largely support the 'status quo'.

They don't want a war with China, they certainly don't want to be turned into the next Ukraine, and that's why the Democratic Peoples Party (DPP) fared poorly in the election last year, after Pelosi visited. They voted in favor of the Kuomintang (KMT), which broadly favors closer links to mainland China and supports the 'status quo'.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 8 August 2023 1:43:24 PM
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