Hi Yabby

I'm not speaking for Dickie here. I'm aware of the situation at Grass Patch, and, like so many similar ones, had the farmer not bred the animals in the first instance the disaster would not have happened. The most staggering thing is that RSPCA WA is yet to decide whether or not to prosecute. Don't breed 'em if you can't feed 'em.

Quite simple really (I mean, it's not rocket science that if you keep ewes and rams, and bulls and cows, and boars and sows apart, you won't breed animals, is it?).

It is, however, far preferable that if animals MUST be slaughtered, that it occurs under proper, humane conditions as close to the place where they were raised as possible. They should never be sent half way across the world (or the country) to be brutalized, although you have said that you people here do similar stuff, of course.

None of this should be a too difficult a concept.

Still, as the drought continues, hopefully you people won't be able to continue your current practices, and with rising fuel and feed prices, you'll have to find something else to do.

The problem I have with PALE is that it clearly is just one person, who cannot provide any sound or verifiable information about what it actually does (except promoting its slaughter venture) and it expects us to believe that it is an animal welfare "group". Furthermore, it claims not to raise funds, but has a Paypal "donate now" link on its websites.

Nicky

*had the farmer not bred the animals in the first instance the disaster would not have happened.*

Nicky, you still don't get it. Animals left to their own devices
will breed all by themselves, nothing to do with the farmer.

*it's not rocket science that if you keep ewes and rams, and bulls and cows, and boars and sows apart, you won't breed animals, is it?).*

Well for you it clearly is rocket science, for you clearly still don't
get it! Animals have a natural instinct, due to billions of years
of evolution, to breed and multiply. That is basic evolution theory.

If you go against those instincts and try to deny them their natural
urges, you will be amazed as to how talented they are in escaping
your piddly fences and doing what comes naturally. I've known
of cases of just one smart arsed little ram lamb learning some
new trick and 200 ewes landing up pregnant. You would need all
your rocket science to outsmart them, never underestimate those
urges and what they can do, if they really try!

Fact is, many stay in their paddocks, as they are content with
the world, not because of Fort Knox type fences.

Yabby
I thought I would share this with you as your probably the only one who will appreciate it. ( Then again maybe not) Anyway it looks like we have a major cattle exporters ready to convert to chiiled. We are absolutly delighted so keep things crossed for us.
Also he has been helpful on the feed lot accreditations and has no problem with creek fed either. On top of that we have another two farmers travelling down next week and one of those is a poultry farmer prepaired to look at making the change to large free range farms etc..

It one by one by two but as you know its the best way because other farmers look over the back paddock and say- Hey hang on a moment hes getting$$ etc.

I just wish the others would see it that way. I wish they could understand its for the better of the animals.

I am not prepaired to post anything we are doing with Halal under the circumstances and I do not accept our girls on this forum are seperate from the extreme lot.

I will let you know when I hear more about feed lot accreditations and how we can approach the board for more space.

Dickie Pls understand there is a real need for people to reopen plants to divert from live exports.

Each of us must do things that we think make a difference and I am sorry but you cant protest live exports and oppose reopening abasttoirs in the same breath.

You CAN insist on the very best plants and equiptment and that ALL codes of transport are followed and stock are fed and watered and treated in the best way possible.
You can update plants as better equiptment becomes available. You can work on gas If you are involved in the industry you can stop a lot of cruelty.
We love animals enough to actually DO something.

Yabby, don't be dense, there's a good boy. Besides, I thought you castrated most of your ram lambs (without anaesthesia, not like you would your dog or cat, of course).

PALE, sounds like the usual unsubstantiated, unverifiable fairytales to me, invented to yet again avoid answering my questions. Don't you think people notice, and see your operation for what is - a front for slaughterhouses, masquerading as an animal welfare "group". An organization which is not prepared to answer reasonable questions about its operations and fundraising activities.

As for gas stunning:

"Aversive gas stunning has been criticised extensively on welfare grounds (particularly with reference to pigs). The Farm Animal Welfare Council (UK) recommended in 2003 that it should be phased out".

And a comment by Professor Gary Francione:
"Despite all of the welfarist campaigns of the last century, we are using more animals now in more horrific ways than ever before in
human history."

Nicky

*Yabby, don't be dense, there's a good boy.*

Me dense Nicky? You clearly don't have the foggiest about what goes
on around a farm, how different breeds behave, under various
conditions etc.

You have these little pet theories, perhaps based on something
like a dopey merino and then make assumptions with no understanding
at all!

*Still, as the drought continues, hopefully you people won't be able to continue your current practices, and with rising fuel and feed prices, you'll have to find something else to do.*

A survey was done of 300 farms in the SW of WA, from 2002-2006.
Returns from agriculture were 8%, 1% from farming the land, 7% from
rising land values.

In other words, all that hard work is hardly worth it. The most
profitable thing one could do is just let the animals live naturally,
cut numbers to sustainable levels, do nothing, it costs nothing.
Just sell the surplus that nature creates, all by herself.

Based on that model, you have buckley's chance that the grass will
stop growing, for while it does, there will be models that are
profitable, one way or another.

Yabby said

Ah, but where you girls have your philosophy all screwed up, is
that if you refuse to support slaughtering animals in Australia,
then what you are all about is not animal welfare, but animal
liberation, which is very different indeed as a philosophy!
Pale comments.
Yabby I note your comment went unchallanged from the er, ladies.
Wouldnt that then mean that Australians who are concerned about humane products from paddock to plate are not being heard.?

I guess we can then take it they agree with your comments.

So in fact PETA and the ladies Australian peak heros are Animal Liberation in your opinion.

I see now why pale recieved letters from all of the peak organisations refusing to assist our projects to reopen abattoirs to faze out live exports.

Yep its all as clear as mud now. Just as well Pale decided to work in Conjunction with RSPCA QLD.

One cant be too careful these days just whom one mixes with can they:)


You know considering Australia is a meat eating country surley these bright old uni ducks should have figured out some basics for themselves .

One would have to be that to improve conditions for animals people must to work with Governments farmers Muslims and anybody else involved with the industry,'''


What a darn shame PETA and their buddies wont support programes to phase out live exports and assist to reopen plants to save the animals a long unnessary journey in third world countrys.

It kind of makes you wonder what it is they do with all those millions raised each year.

Sad when you think how much of a difference they could have made by making sure the animals are at least slaughtered as close to their place of origen.

I wonder if its too much lettuce that stop the girls from being able to think for 'themselves.'

GY Great.
I will forward the rest as requested to Canberra