Once again, Dickie is absolutely right. PALE, I haven't seen evidence of "blaming" farmers, but if they knowingly breed animals for, and sell animals into the live export trade, then if the proverbial "cap fits...". Dickie is quite correct. The live export industry operates outside the normal moral framework we expect, since they cannot similarly brutalize their animals in Australia as they allow the Middle Eastern (and other countries') butchers to do, despite Yabby's Pinocchio style assertions.

Nor did anyone "allege" that PALE was fundraising "outside the practices of the (Queensland) Department of Fair Trading" - merely, questions were asked, and that was only in the light of allegations PALE made about other organizations. So PALE is no longer a "group", just a "mob of ex-farmers and lawyers". Interesting. Are you then still entitled to use the name?

I also understand that the Handle with Care Coalition is about developing alternatives to the long distance transport of animals for slaughter, and working towards bans by means of raising public awareness, scientific research and negotiations.

It doesn't seem worth even entering into debate about the relative lifestyles of city and country dogs on this thread either, beyond pointing out that there is no way that my dogs are "slaves", or confined or restrained in any way. They are not, however, allowed to rip any other animals to pieces (perhaps you have to keep your dogs hungry in order to get them to do that), and I find that disgusting and sickening but typical of Yabby's attitude to animals generally.

Yabby, your animals do NOT live natural lives,they are subjected to all manner of interferences from mutilations to being slaughtered or sent on long distance transport at a time determined by you. That is the ultimate interference with their natural lives.

Nicky

Dickie remember we are on the same side 'or supposed to be'.

Yes it *is up to the people of this country to stand up for the rights of others including animals and farmers . *

Church leaders are miserably absent when it comes to leading their flock and speaking out to the public but so are many animal welfare groups.

I repeat =
"All this energy being directed towards putting the blame on farmers should be directed towards finding viable alternatives."

Why do some people want to chase main stream animal lovers out of the animal welfare arena.

I would have thought the more people out there protesting about cruelty to animals the better. We encourage anybody we meet not discourage.
I didn’t invent live exports or intensive farming anymore than you did .

This type of attitude has held animal welfare back for years.



Perhaps we need to take a closer look at this Anti Pale attitude which comes from some Animal Liberation groups.

It’s a miserable hole the Governments of the country jug for our animals farmers because they are in bed with a small number of people with vetted interests.

People must work towards sensible projects to reopen abattoirs to stop live exports.

Could it be that ‘some’ groups are in fact quite political? Perhaps we could trace that a little more later.

Until the public are fully aware nothings going to change. They public are also very fond of our farmers so bagging farmers and Muslims for that matter will only make it worse.
If you really want to stop live exports put an alternative on the table = other than not eating meat.

*I also understand that the Handle with Care Coalition is about developing alternatives to the long distance transport of animals for slaughter, and working towards bans by means of raising public awareness, scientific research and negotiations.*

Umm, Dont be surprised to see more leaving by air. Is that what you want?
Like I said practicle alternatives mean reopening abattoirs and offering compertion in the market so the farmers have a alternative.

Now you tell me who else other than pale has been working on that.

Theres nothing scientific about it Nicky its not rocket science . If you take the 'bull' and the 'politics' out of it thats what you left with.


Tell me do you ever think things through for yourself?

Anyway I accept the fact you are brain washed but at least you have some concern for animals. I just wish you understood that its the Government in bed with the industry that support live exports. Farmers mainly just want a fair go and if they cant get a fair price in this country due to being in bed with an industry that throws political donations around then of course they will support live exports because its their familes lives.

Most farmers ( real farmers) do NOT like the live animal trade.
The others are not farmers but have now become a threat to the future of all animal welfare due to lack of action in the past.
Its a pity it was let go so long but now we must reopen plants and compete.
So if you really care start working to do that. Its the least we can do for the poor creatures

*Yabby, your animals do NOT live natural lives*

Hehe, my animals are out there in nature, grazing, breeding,
doing what comes naturally out in nature. Meantime your dogs are
stuck in your house, doing what you tell them, fed unnatural foods,
little more then your slaves.

Of course they hunt rabbits, dogs are hunters after all. Hunting
is part of their instinct. They only sometimes eat them.

I remind you of your 5 bible rules. Let animals live as naturally
as possible. Mine do, yours clearly don't.

Yabby, you have no idea of how my dogs live, but in fact they are inside and outside as they please, and are fed a normal diet of unprocessed food. They are therefore not hungry enough to seek to rip other animals to bits, although they have been known to chase cats and rabbits. They have yet to catch either so the situation has not arisen. They would be immediately stopped from torturing other animals though, unlike your dogs.

Your animals (sigh - yet again!!) do not live natural lives, they are subjected to all manner of interventions and to long distance transport, saleyards, feedlots and slaughter. They are allowed periods in their lives which could be described as "natural", but they die when YOU say so, and by means which are in varying degrees of what we would describe as cruelty.

PALE, MUST we go through your endless slaughterhouse promotion exercises yet again? Brainwashing has nothing to do with it, nor does political acuity; the issue is simply a different philosophy and approach. Some of us (please take this in once and for all) are absolutely not interested in actively promoting slaughterhouses, nor do we believe that it is up to the wider community to find solutions for farmers. Those who operate outside the framework of community expectations must expect community disapprobation, and deal with the consequences of what they do. Their choice. Australian Pork Limited is discovering that thanks to Animals Australia.

Finally, to Yabby's gospel according to Siba Ships (and Wellards). Can we expect the 30-40 year old monstrosities to be taken offline now? Do we care? No, (sigh - yet again!) because of what happens to the animals in importing countries.

How clear do we have to be?

Nicky

*although they have been known to chase cats and rabbits. They have yet to catch either so the situation has not arisen.*

My point exactly, dogs are hunters so will chase rabbits, if hungry
or not. The fact that your dogs are too slow to catch a rabbit,
is probably due to their unnatural lives, eating the gourmet foods
that you have told us about. My dogs are fit, for they run for
miles and miles. They love to run! Given that I don't harness them
with artificial harnesses as you do, they can do exactly that, every
day.

Of course my animals lead natural lives. The fact that I limit the
population, so that they don't suffer from hunger and overpopulation,
is in fact the kindest thing that can be done.

I really don't think that my animals give a stuff as to eats them
after death, for I certainly don't care what happens to me after
death. If we risk living, we risk dying.