Dickie, my point was to Penny, who I understand is far better informed then you
are, so would have have a copy of the MLA annual report, with the exact figures.

As you are the most vocal and aggressive critic of farmers on OLO, could you
please go beyond wearing out your google bar, to obtain some accurate information.
There is nothing wrong with criticism, as long as its not due to ignorance,
as in your case. Make it informed for a change please.

So far nearly all your claimed manipulation, has shown to be you being badly
informed, or knowing little about the topic which you want to discuss. Relying
on Peta for information, is not going to do it for you. They seem to know as little
about sheep as you do.

Now surely you know one single farmer out of the 43’401 MLA members, who
can lend you a copy of his annual report, so that I don’t have to repeat this stuff
over and over and we can at least discuss this without your total lack of knowledge.

Page 31 discusses the on farm welfare programme, that’s 2.2 million $ this year.
Page 32 discusses livestock export welfare programme, that’s in fact 3.8 million$
this year.

No its not all spent in the ME, its spent in Indonesia as well, where our cattle go.
Another 30 restraining boxes are being rolled out there, so now 85% of cattle
in Indonesia are slaughtered this way. I guess cattle, due to their size, have
priority over sheep, but I see no good reason why as funds permit, a similar
programme could not be run in the ME for sheep. It would be a win-win all
round. These systems will stay in place for the future, whether our sheep
are there or not. I see all this as extremely positive for animals, but you girls
are so black and white with your agendas, you refuse to even think about these
things. That’s really sad.

Yabby

IMOP you’ve not been involved in the live trade as a life style.

How much of your attitude comes from being brain washed by the Industry out of desire to fit in with bigger players only you know.

The soul argument you managed to put up and dismissing all publics and RSPCA cries of protest as loonies has been what about the farmers who rely on live exports.

Yes you have a valid point if we were to leave all morals aside.

You claim the whole country is either on drugs.

Not saying that your arguments in today’s climate at times do not have merit.

After all that was the PLAN= to set it up this way from trade deals!

However Yabby really all you are confirming is our Australian Governments has no control and is unable to rule in the best interests of the Australian public due to their fear of standing up to the bullies within the Live Export Industry that they got into bed with.
You lie with mangy dogs and you catch fleas.

Rojo and Yabby= working on pales conspiracy theories
http://www.farmonline.com.au/news_daily.asp?ag_id=47778

PALE is standing by the Australian Beef Association and is demanding the MLA be replaced.

PALE has had this same type of lies and deception working with a our HKM work to create new abattoirs within Australia.

We call upon Mr. Rudd to dismantle this IMOP corrupt organization MLA and replace its whole structure in the interests of all Australians.

RP>

MLA Refuses Requests from Members to Public ally Release the Ernst and Young Report into Poll RortMLA managing director, David Palmer, has since refused ABA's requests to release the document.

Mr. Bellinger claims MLA paid $81,779 to Ernst & Young for their investigation.

"This poll rort by the MLA should have been made public 18 months ago so MLA members could have complete confidence that the company is transparent to the people that fund the organization," Mr. Bellinger said.

"The refusal to do so raises many questions of the MLA's integrity, the most obvious being - what is the MLA hiding?"

Yoo hoo. I'm still here but not for long.

Yabby

I advise that I have collated and typed up many Annual Reports. I did not request to view the glossy end of year sophistry from this industry . Why do you not respond to my request for the financials, the chart of accounts and the bank statements? After all this company cannot claim "Commercial in Confidence" since they have no competitors.

It again reveals that you have a flagrant disregard for the truth:

"Fact is that Australian farmers are the only ones doing anything about animal welfare in the ME. That helps all animals over there, not just Australian ones."

And what would that be Yabby?

Then:

"but I see no good reason why as funds permit, a similar
programme could not be run in the ME for sheep"

Therefore, there has been NO funding for the ME.

Ah Yabby, you fool, you remain on this thread simply because you are unable to fool the "big boys" with your rubbish, so you are forced to return to argue with the girls but the girls have the same contempt for you as others.

Your impotence in rationale is apparent in all the spurious arguments you arrogantly spruik on OLO as is indicated in the following link:

"Yabby

"Your pretending to address that post by avoiding the point & going on to repeat the same notion about saving incentives perfectly exemplifies the (aforementioned) technique of using someone else’s post as prop for pure repetition rather than a pretext for response."

Mr Smith
Posted by MrSmith, Monday, 7 January 2008 4:22:18 AM

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6697&page=0#102887

And another from "Daggett:"

"Yabby

"You have done here exactly what you always do.

"You simply restate, over and over again, the same
assertions, without any regard to earlier arguments
in response to those assertions. This serves no
useful purpose other than to bloat the size of
the discussion and waste the time of others who
wish to seriously discuss the issue at hand."

Such words of wisdom about this supercilious, puffed up parrot of piffle!

Au revoir!

PALE, now I am more confused than ever - is it I or Nicky or both of us who is accused of being a lackey, and if it is me, indulge me please - for whom am I a lackey? I do not belong to any animal welare group.

Rojo - thanks, and you too, Yabby, it's good to know I'm not the only one who is mystified here. Dickie, all the best with your move, and we hope you are back amongst us soon.

Rojo - sorry, but now we come to a bit of a parting of the ways - you say that you prefer to take the word of the government over the union (Yabby, did you also say that?) Given the information available about the government's blind support of this industry, I wouldn't be so sure, I'm afraid. I think MLA should have to come clean about precisely where this money is being spent on the welfare of animals exported live (cos it sure ain't in the Middle East! They know a lost cause (MiddleEast) when they see one). Also, how much of it has (really)been contributed by the government. I think that Dickie is probably right, you will find it has been mostly spent on research here. (although I am aware that some work has been done in SE Asia) to try to breed for animals who will stand up better to the rigours of this awful trade. (PALE - I don't think one more rort will lead to the dismantling of MLA, now matter how much your group "demands" it. Nor is it likely that Mark Vaile would declare a conflict of interest here. You would need irrefutable evidence and someone to present it).

BTW, Yabby, hsve you any comment to make on the WA Liberals' proposal to remove the ships from Fremantle in favour of Kwinanna (I think)? We can't have these lorries of suffering sheep, cattle and goats in the public eye as they have been for too much longer, I guess.

Hello all
Wow I cant read it all since I have been away but there is a lot of really good posts.
Yabby why is it that you feel so strongly about these animals
being sent alive.
I know that is how you feel but considering RSPCA have spent so much trying to get public support to stop it I dont see why we cant all work together to at least kill the poor things here.
Cant you imagine how frightend these animals would be?
Tell me is it your fear of not having a income or are you invested with a large company.
Cant you even discuss doing this another way?

I read some of that parliment enquiry link and all I can say it stinks.
To me its clear they held a gun to that abattoir owners head because they wanted it diverted to live exports.

What cruel people they must really be to do that to the family after over a hundred years of loyalty to Australia not to mention the animals.

Well look forward to posting more for a while as my time will allow me.

Penny, MLA publish various magazines for growers, discussing all sorts of things
that they do. From new machinery in automation, farming systems, pastures,
marketing campaigns, to what they are doing in the ME. Recently its been about
what the Dondons are doing there. Clearly money is being spent there. If people
want further breakdowns on what exactly which $ is spent, why don’t you ring MLA?

How do you know that the ME is a lost cause? Have you seen Dubai lately? You
make the same mistake many make. You try to understand them from your
perspective, not their perspective. If converting meatworks in Indonesia worked,
why can’t it work in the ME? I’ve been to the ME, I know how differently they
think to us. Nothing upsets them more then Western arrogance. Try that approach
and no matter what you do, you will fail. Arabs are very stubborn people and very
proud people, ignore those things are your peril. The Americans are learning all
this the hard way, as their boys go home in coffins every day and have been for
a few years now.

How do you know that sheep on lorries are suffering?

Dickie, I actually debate on OLO, as I find types like you hugely amusing.

I am not your servant and don’t dance to your tune. The financials are
part of the annual report. If you are too lazy to source your own, that’s not
my problem but yours. If you want to know more, ring MLA.

Point after point, I have defeated your arguments, yours usually from ignorance.
So you have been getting frustrated, the steam has been rising as the anger
soared :) So its been about abuse and ad hominem attacks to make yourself
feel better. That’s fine lol, when people get frustrated some become abusive,
its common human behaviour. You are not the first person to get angry when
their arguments of substance fail and its down to frustration. I’ve been
doing this stuff for a while now :)