Nicky, frankly the Australian public just don't know enough about
live exports and I don't think they are very interested. How many
people on OLO participate in the discussions? In the last elections
is was hardly an issue.

The reality is that AWB bought Landmark to add another string to
their bow, as they knew that their export monopoly could be lost.

Wesfarmers sold Landmark, as they have moved into all sorts of other
industries and Landmark was only a very small part of their business.

Even within Landmark, live exports are a tiny division. They simply
act as commission agents for their farmer clients. The fact that
Wesfarmers sold Landmark, was common knowledge for anyone involved
with things rural. Sorry, but my life is not built on conspiracy
theories, when things are common knowledge in the rural press.
If people don't read the rural press, thats their problem.

Frankly I think that the animal welfare industry should forget all
this politics and concentrate on animal welfare. I have been doing
a fair bit of research to inform myself and am discovering some
interesting things.

Everything I read, points to the fact that once blood pressure drops,
we become unconcious extremely rapidly. When the heart stops, boof,
thats it, we drop like a stone. If the main artery is cut, within
seconds we don't have a clue what is happening around us. Our
brainstem might still be active, but we just don't know about it.
it goes into neuroscience here, but it matters hugely.

To me all this basic science is really important and I'd like to
understand it more, not bog myself down in politics and in who
hates whom.

Yabby

Thread on slaughter is now open so will continue there to discuss methods.

Although your comment was directed to Nicky I would like to say we disagree.
The public may not be up on codes in house shop talk but they are aware of what live exports are and have over whelmingly spoken out against it.

The reason many don’t post on the threads is because it’s not kept on simple basis that all the public can understand. It is a matter of record on OLO by past threads that many public have placed comments. In fact it more than tripled other threads.

Kerry O’Brien said on land Line there is strong public concern for live exports.60 minutes alone did five separate segments on the cruel live animal trade “unprecedented’

ABC Land Line was just before the Federal Elections which goes back to the Bone Of this thread- Did Kevin Rudd Lie about Live Exports.?

After all Kerry was speaking on behalf of the pre election policy of a Rudd Government.

Live Exports certainly was a major issue with the public to force Kevin07s team to address the issue one week out before the election.

Please do not tell me you think the public are silly enough not to see through that .

ALP went on to say that as a Minister he has received more complaints from the public about Live Animal Exports mater than other.

RSPCA have longed campaigned for such brutal cruelty to cease and be diverted to chilled

Peter McGauran certainly didn’t disagree and I can say his advisor expressed the high public interests in it at a meeting on the Gold coast last year.

Re Wesfarmers
No you’re wrong. The reality is that companies must disclose all of their interests for investors and share holders and the department had no records or knowledge of wesfarmers having done so and they were informed they would have to disclose it.

Knowing some would be less than impressed and having concerns for the future within week’s weeks or our expressing concerns it was passed to AWB.

TBC

*Live Exports certainly was a major issue with the public to force Kevin07s team to address the issue one week out before the election.*

Gertrude, it might have been a major issue for you, it was raised
in respect to farming, for farmers, but it was hardly raised by
the mainstream press, certainly not once, that I am aware of.
There were just so many other issues.

Nope, the public don't understand the issue. Watching a 60 minutes
programme does not inform them about the industry, it gives them
a glimpse of where there were problems and am image that some
in the animal welfare lobby, are trying to project.

Every industry has problems.
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s2131379.htm

Yes, O'Brien had a great deal of correspondance, as there has been
a huge lobby effort by the veggie groups, to bombard politicians
with protests. Its a bit like the abortion debate. A relatively
small amount of people can make a huge amount of noise, through
their extreme lobbying efforts.

Continued Gerti

Yabby said

They ' Landmark’ simply act as commission agents for their farmer clients.

Pale replies

Yup= Landmark are middle men and shipping agents. The ones responsible for the cruel live animal trade with help of both the Australian morally corrupt Governments - you go that right. [Pays to advertise Yabbs]

Pale replies
I also read the rural press but most city people with kids and don’t.
That doesn’t mean they don’t care Yabby.As you appreciate and they rely on media but with conflicts of interests and ownership the live trade and intensive farming its rare a story slips through.

Yabby said

Sorry, but my life is not built on conspiracy.

Pale
Than I guess I was wrong in my theory that you were collecting info on who is causing the industry the most problems.

Although OLO itself is a marvelous way to collect data on personal peoples views.

BTW We hate "live Export Agents" for the record and that is shared between all posters regardless or personality clashes or anything else.
On that we stand united. Unfortunately It is political its very political sowe are forced to play that game. Like you I would much rather be building plants and fitting them out with the best possible equipment as close to place of origin as possible to comply with RSPCA recommendations
Oh, I forgot, you send them alive.

Well I would prefer to be in a position I could offer you much more to sell to us- And Yaby I will be one day!

Anyway for goodness sake there is so much more profit in Halal vegetables why you r with meat.

PS I corrected a spelling error for you-he, he,he,

Yabbysaid
Nope, the public don't understand the issue
Yes, O'Brien had a great deal of correspondence,

Pale replies
Umm well we had best inform them- shouldn’t we? I wonder if TV and full page newspaper ads might help. What do you think?

TBC

Continued
Gerti
Yabbysaid

Yes, O'Brien had a great deal of correspondence, as there has been
a huge lobby effort by the veggie groups, to bombard politicians
with protests. It’s a bit like the abortion debate.

Pale replies
No Kerry O’Brien said when giving his pre election policy on ABC Nation TV that he had more letters from the “public” objecting to the cruelty of animals involved in live animal trade than anything else.

Yabby Plenty loads of ordinary main stream meat eaters are members of Animal Welfare groups.
. A small percentage is veggies. The other percentages I have heard are also thinking of lodging a separate class action against Peter McGauran for misrepresentation of their position. Pale alone have had our own members far from happy and you could hardily blame them .For that matter he defamed us as well
Also remember Peter McGauran acted on evidence delivered to them by these people so what he on about?
It pretty rough when members of the public have to head off to ME to do the Governments job then SHAME them into action!
After saying that I would strongly encourage all groups to help pale reopen plants and as you said- Forget Politics.
So are you going to sell me that next lot of sheep or not?

Yo, just working, on your conspiracy theory Yabbs do you think some clever fool might have come up with the idea that if we turn Australia to a ritual slaughter country that people like me won’t have anything to protest about.
No I mean it really. Humor me here. You know what I am like. I just can’t help myself.
I mean they argue than animals are sent to a third world country that does not have our animal welfare standards as you know. So hey maybe ALP have decided to lower ours! Now that would solve a few problems for Landmark Elders AWB and the others wouldn’t it.
Yup
It could only happen with the Australian Government that’s for sure.

Hi all
The best information available is that O'Brien was not representing ALP policy on live exports at all, and what he said is a major reason for his being dumped by Rudd. He is to be commended for that stand, however - Hansard records indicate that he is one of the few who is not/was not able to turn a blind eye to this brutality any longer. But O'Brien himself was backing away from his Landline statements as the election got closer.

By dumping him, the Rudd fgovernment could not be held to any promises he made. And you will find that the only people he is listening to are the farmers' lobby groups and LiveCorp (so far).

As I understand it, McGauran had not even bothered to see the film footage from the most recent investigation when he spoke on Landline. Burke has been put in there to try to a) collect on the decline of the Nationals and b) to claw back farmers' support.

Did someone not point out not long ago that Tasmanian slaughterhouses were for sale? Why did PALE not expand its operations down there?

Whether the correspondencxe sent to O'Brien and McGauran was from "veggie groups" is arguable - given the sheer volume that O'Brien said he received (on this issue far more than any other, as was the case with the "7.30 Report" - it should be available at that website) - the material I have seen has been from the carnivorous members of the community as well.

And Yabby - until we have scientific evidence to the contrary, I think "veggie" people and carnivores alike will not tolerate slaughter without pre-stunning. The meat workers even came out and said they do not want to slaughter animals who have not been stunned.

Cheers
Nicky