'Evening all
Isn't it great to see a bit of meaningful stuff happening here? Well done, Yabby and Penny.

Just by way of a short update, discussions with the AMIEU today would seem to indicate that they have certainly not been told to "back off" on live exports. They, and another source, believe that O'Brien was dumped because of his statements on Landline - it also has to do with capitalizing on the decline of the Nationals.

Yabby, coincidentally, I also found some references (European, in two parts):

"Long-distance transport for slaughter causes much unnecessary suffering to sheep, from bruising, trampling, handling stress, and long periods without food and water. Bruising shows up in the sheep
carcases; in abattoir surveys, 71% of carcases of lambs and 49% of carcases of ewes have been found to be bruised, because of the sheep climbing over each other or because they were pulled by their wool.

"Loading is an unfamiliar and stressful procedure for sheep and it increases lambs’ heart rate by 100%. Research at Bristol University Veterinary Department in the 1990s showed that lambs are over four times more likely to die during transport or in lairage if they have been bought through markets than if they have been bought directly from farmers,20 presumably because of the extra journeys and stress they have been subjected to. Stress caused by transport is known to make animals more susceptible to infection. Blood tests on lambs that had been collected from the hills or from markets and then transported to France a week later indicated they were suffering from tiredness and food deprivation. Sheep take some time to recover from the stress of transport. Lambs lie down more than normal even 24 hours after a long journey, presumably because they are still tired

"Full recovery from 14 hours of travel was found to take six days.20
The EU’s Scientific Committee on Animal Health and Animal Welfare believes that live animal transport should be avoided. The committee reported in 2002, after an exhaustive review of the scientific evidence that "some of the poorest welfare in transported animals is caused by bad treatment of animals during loading or unloading, by bad driving, or by lack of proper inspection" and concluded, "since loading and transport are stressful to animals unaccustomed to them, for these animals transport should be avoided wherever possible and journeys should be as short as possible".

Scientific Committee on Animal Health and Animal
Welfare. The welfare of animals during transport
(details for horses, pigs, sheep and cattle). March
2002. European Commission. Section 13,
Executive Summary

Sorry I had to do it in two parts. Yabby, I'd be really interested in your thoughts on this, because I understand that sheep (and cattle) are often transported from WA to the Eastern states (and possibly the reverse as well) and the journeys are largely unmonitored because they cross state and territory boundaries.

I believe that there is a current issue happening down in Tasmania arising out of the mortality report on the last live export shipment out of there - it was found, amongst other things, that Tasmanian sheep are not very well adapted to equatorial crossings, but what's happening is that they are being shipped/trucked to Portland and sent from there.

Nite all
Nicky

nicky said

Just by way of a short update, discussions with the AMIEU today would seem to indicate that they have certainly not been told to "back off" on live exports. They, and another source, believe that O'Brien was dumped because of his statements on Landline - it also has to do with capitalizing on the decline of the Nationals.

pale said

Pull the other leg it whistles
You dont honestly believe do you that the information was posted out to "all members or even branch leaders in a memo" to every man and his dog do you Nicky.!?

I can assure you 2005 2006 that certainly was the case. I see no reason especially since Rudd gave his public support for the Live trade and demonstrated his loyalty to the Industry being saying sweet bugger all at thhe AWB enquiry
Do you have any idea how politics work.

Yes with he National being weaker they may be having a bit more.

I dont post information like that unless I am sure of my facts.

The other thing is Nicky even if the person you spoke with by phone had knowledge they are hardly going to tell you I can asure you of that much.

ALP made their position known on live exports for the last twenty years and that hasnt changed.

They had ever given oportunity to say something dueing and after the Cormo and the AWB Enquiry. Instead Kevin Rudd said. " Quote" I wont be banning live exports' I understand these things" unquote'


For eg for years Howard didnt run Australia the people behind him and his party did like Packer and a few others with huge interests in live exports and of course the media amoung other companies.

Feel free to call anybody you wish trying to stir up trouble for pale penny because I am aware of certain calls made several years ago and the person who made them.

I will stand by what I said=
AMIEU were! told to back off live exports.
That is a fact!

Penny said

I don't think one more rort will lead to the dismantling of MLA, now matter how much your group "demands"

Pale replies

The alternative would be to do nothing which is unacceptable.

I stand corrected. I should have said HKM demands changes to MLA in support of the red meat industry.
Thanks for pointing that out.

Although Pale does have a slightly different reputation with the Government being known to be promoting reopening abattoirs and working with RSPCA QLD and Muslims.

The last thing that red meat industry needs is to be linked to any animal welfare groups that would be written off to the public as extremists by the Government and media.

We discussed the situation plus some other issues we have had with MLA ourselves today with Mr. Bellinger and hopefully with combined efforts we will get some answers

He was in particular delighted to receive a copy of the Senate Enquiry into Abattoirs I posted for you Dickie Nicky to see.
There is some very interesting material in that and it was kept very quite at the time. [Note the first question to Mark Vaile re Animal Welfare Groups]

I forwarded a copy of it to Lyn along with this.-
. http://www.livexports.com/eyewitness.html

I am just glad there are so many others from all angles working for animals. Its heart warming.

. Dawn low and Trish Brown in particular have achieved so much. I only wish we heard more direct from those people. Trish Brown was a great personal inspiration for me with her visit to a Halal plant all those years ago.

Penny said

Nor is it likely that Mark Vaile would declare a conflict of interest here. You would need irrefutable evidence and someone to present it).

Pale replies
Yup

Taryn look at the Senate Enquiry into Abattoirs= I can’t believe Suzzanne has ignored it.

Clearly a blatant move leaving hundreds without work in the meat industry to redirect to live!

Ooops meant Penny= sorry!

Well done Taryn I think Penny Nicky actually listened to you.

After all Yabby isn’t a live export agent. He didn’t make the rules.
Most codes of practice are only recommended codes of practice and unenforceable.. Then of course you have the fact that RSPCA have MOUs with DPI state Governments.DPI being the ones to inspect = or not to. Each state has different codes designed purposely.

Ah, Yabby I thought you at least may have liked to debate Senate Enquiry into Abattoirs in WA?.

Penny regarding bruising you are looking at another rort. Tax payers are paying for claims of bruising or death. Doesn’t do much to encourage good animal welfare now does it if you’re paid by the public for each beast who suffers unmercifully...

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:6qDZfeJ0zIwJ:www.ausmeat.com/Sales/pdf/OTH-A4.pdf+loss+of+payment+livestock+bruising&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au

http://www.mla.com.au/HeaderAndFooter/Glossary.htm

Penny said
The issue is whether that culture will ever change.
Pale
Last year I had a call from the head MLA guy living in ME. He said IHOP they are changing but it will take years. More people are buying from refrigerated shops and big supper markets. The others still prefer to go watch= they have these big plastic sheets up so you can look and watch the animal being killed.

Regardless of their supermarkets they still go live and are killed their to support their economy when we should be supporting Australia’s.

Penny
, look at the "Five Freedoms", there is nothing more remote from that, and their

Pale
No five freedoms there – not even for people.

The Government are not going to go against the industry.
So we either get in and do it ourselves or just listen to the sound of our own voices. Don’t worry Yabby once the Saudis start putting money in the Government will let skilled labor in.
Yabby the demands to turn Australia into a Islamic ritual country are certainly not new..
It’s all about power and controlling accreditations and bugger all to do with animal welfare. Wouldn’t you agree Ikabel Mohamed?

Well it good to see everybody being polite. Lets keep it that way Please!

nicky, some very good info. The way I see it, the sheep would be even more tired if they had to walk