*Why are they less important than farmers making a fast buck?*

A fast buck Penny? ROFL. There is hardly an industry as long term as agriculture.
I started a project here, breeding wool free sheep, some 8 years ago. I have so far
achieved maybe 30% of my objectives. Fact is that agriculture is one of the least
profitable industries in Australia. One expert recently stated that most farmers are
technically bankrupt, its only increasing land values that hold the wheels on the cart.

All around Australia, meatworks are looking for labour. Where are these 40’000
people? Fact is, Aussies don’t want to do crappy jobs anymore, they have other
options.

You might approve of tariffs and quotas, but market economics is here to stay,
as it gets results. There is a shortage of workers in Australia, that’s why the
457 workers and migrants etc. You can’t put drug addicts on a meat chain,
Worksafe would nail you.

*farmers get far more support than anyone else in the community,*

Rubbish. The MV industry got around 7 billion. I could go on. Besides,
I have no problem if all farm payments are cut, as most go to NSW anyhow,
not to WA. As long as other industries are treated the same.

Farming still has one problem, Govts can’t legislate for rainfall. If drought
hits, livestock have to go somewhere. They can go to a meatworks if
space is available, or they can go on a boat, or they can die in the paddock.

We saw what happened in the last drought. Farmers had to sell for a song,
as processors knew they had to sell, or they would die in the paddocks.
Market forces prevailed, processors made it clear they were not a charity.

Or they went on a boat, for hugely increased values, which saved them
dying of starvation and gave farmers cashflow to buy feed for the core
breeding herds to survive.

I have long argued that meatworks should be allowed to bring in 457
workers to run a second shift, in times of drought.

Yabby, you at least never surprise me. Do you not think that, if the meat workers will say what suits their agenda, so will the farmers? Give us a break! Your arguments are as unpersuasive as ever, because you STILL, no doubt deliberately, fail to properly address the cruelty issues. After all, the material that Animals Australia, PETA and CIWF have filmed and documented doesn't lie and cannot be fabricated. And so far (in the absence of better information), we have a total of three "experts" on the ground in the whole of the Middle East (all on the MLA payroll subsidized by the government therefore by the taxpayer) reportedly addressing this. It's not real good, is it, given that we are talking about MILLIONS of animals.

Given that I have three discrete sources of information - the animal welfare information, the meat workers information and yours, I think I'll go with the former two. You are only about self-preservation on the backs of the animals hapless enough to belong to you. And the cost to them doesn't matter.

penny, just a few points, mainly again in regard to the 40000. The quote you provided includes all supposed job losses over 20 years, nation wide. Very convienient to blame all those "losses" on live exports, we certainly wouldn't expect them to point out efficiency gains, economies of scale(or lack thereof) let alone the overall lack of animals, particularly sheep during this period, had anything to do with the decline.
The least credible part is that the current number of people employed in the direct meat processing industry, incuding sheep meat is about 18000 http://www.agfoodgroup.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/251595/agfood_stocktake_sheep.pdf

And the total involved in all meat related activities- small goods manufacturers,the lot, is 48000(abare).

So are you going to honestly sit there and expect me to believe that a country that slaughters 15 million(sheepmeat council) sheep a year will nearly double the entire workforce with an extra 4 million. A workforce that includes all chicken, pork and beef.(note: live beef exports represent a substantially lower percentage of total production).
And then take into account the thousands of jobs involved with live-export.

If these jobs have been truly lost, why the difficulty in filling current positions?

Penny

` Andrew, AA Peta Next. Good One attacking someone informing you of the complications.

That awful Music to which you refer is the Bushman’s bible” The Cattlemen from the High Planes”

Slim Dusty=we are talking to farmers. I am SURE your friends AA would! Find it as a conflict as you so helpfully point out.

Also you are aware pale works in conjunction with RSPCA QLD and HKM enjoys our CEOs support.

Suzanne Toms` retired – not dead. Hilarious!

Matter of fact for “memory I think “he” picked that bloody awful Music. I will be sure to pass on your
Comments. He’s traveling atm. Say hello to Grant for us- He’s a close friend of Toms


Shall post confirmation to us “from AA”declaring they could NOT support abattoirs >?

THE PLAN"

In the beginning was the plan.
And then came the Assumptions.

And the Assumptions were without form.
And the plan was completely without substance, and

The darkness was upon the face of the workers and they
spoke amongst themselves, saying, it’s a crock of SH and it stinks".

And the workers went unto their supervisors and said
it~ a pail of dung and none can abide its odor".

And the supervisors went unto their managers and said to them,
it’s a container of excrement and it is very strong, such that
none may abide it"

And the managers went unto their directors and said,
it is a vessel of fertilizer and none may abide its strength'

And The Directors spoke amongst themselves saying to
one another,' It contains that which aids plant growth
and it is very strong".

And the directors went unto the vice - presidents and
said unto them, it promotes growth and is very powerful"

And the vice presidents went unto the President and
said unto him, ' This new plan will actively promote the
growth and efficiency of this Company and will be most
effective".

And The President looked upon the Plan and saw that it was good.

And the PLAN became POLICY.

And my friend that’s how SH Happens in the Meat Industry!

Hi all
There seems to be a bit of infighting happening yet again. Penny provided the reference everyone so doubted, and obviously such claims cannot be made without foundation. PALE, I'm afraid I get really mystified about some of your posts, and whose agenda you are actually following. There just doesn't seem to be coherent thought there. Like Yabby, you seem to believe that insulting and/or patronising people will a) get your point across (and it's a very obscure one at times, I'm afraid) and b) make everyone believe you are right and c) your facts are the only facts when often what you quote simply comes from your own website and is without reference. I assume that when you have called Penny Suzanne you meant me, but I don't know why. She has in fact quoted from a media release on Animals Australia's website. Also - what makes you think the AMIEU has been told to "back off" on live exports?

Rojo, you asked for the facts and Penny gave them to you, properly referenced. I think Dickie was right in stating that a large number of unemployed meat workers woud have been taken up in the mining boom in WA; people will go where the money is, and that is particularly true of people in the lower ranges of skills sets. Neither is pleasant work, and the resources boom will come to an end.

The Howard government's treatment of the unemployed would have driven substantial numbers into retraining in other sectors as well. That was certainly the case in NSW and Victoria.

Nite all,
Nicky

pale, I do make allowances for your "confusion" which is why I wasn't upset that you wrongly attributed my quote to Yabby. I should have mentioned that misquotation several times in my post, and I can understand why you would forget to check back on your own posts. It would have saved you some embarassment, and possibly Yabby too. I don't mind that you think I'm Yabby, but Yabby may not be as happy about being thought of as me.
Anyway, if You came up with that conclusion, it's already nullified itself.

Have a read back through the posts, mine about the 10500 jobs, my quote that your lack of "office skills" butchered , which you wrongly attribute to Yabby and then your last post to me, including some reference to a Robert? In a carpark?

My advice to you is get it right in the first place, it'll save you being "driven nuts". Well maybe not.

Yabby, no offence meant(to you). If the quote didn't have omissions I would have left well enough alone. Hope you at least get a laugh over the confusion. I assume you know something about a carpark.