Rojo wasn’t intentional= sorry

Dickie Nicky Well done!

Yabby this is BS!>

http://www.halaljournal.com/artman/publish/article_165.shtml
Watch it Ikabel!

PF,Jobs for Sea Change Families,Aboriginal, regional.

Many migrants 'do' Better than centerlink.

Yabbysaid
Interestingly the Heilbron report states 10500 "lost" jobs, the AMIEU's claim. No wonder you are distancing yourself from it-
[ pale [yup]

Yabby said
Where I see the problem is that you guys have your fixed little views there,
which are all black and white, based on your philosophies, which are banners
on your websites. You lack people qualified in livestock, as distinct from pets.
You have marketing people, graphics people, all kinds of most likely really
nice people, but with a set, inflexible agenda. You refuse to think outside the square or to compromise. I don’t think that’s very intelligent.

Pale relies

We agree with you Yabby. We have encouraged everyone to work with farmers and seek knowledgeable people in the meat industry.

We don’t know it all but at least we post our own comments based on our own experience.

We have offered countless times to put interested members of the public in touch with Muslim buyers wanting to visit Australian farmers to talk Halal farms and Plants.

Wouldn’t you think these people who claim they want live diverted to carcass might say this=
Well I am buggered if I know, but, hey what the hell, if they reckon they have the contacts, it’s not going to cost me anything to try it and it may help the animals?

Do you hear them saying that? No !

Because they are loyal to the cause. Problem is they don’t know what that is.

Ok Lets try this Yabby= we will buy your sheep before you send them to ME.

I will arrange their slaughter by contract here so the girls won’t have to worry about the gritty details.

Who knows Yabbs, with all the emotion you might do really well!

Gee we may have solved the live trade problem already= Auctions through OLO
So who will start me with a bid?

Do I hear $40.00 to start ``````````````````````````````````````````````````

"The sheep flock has halved since the early 90s, due to lack of profitability etc, from 170 million to 85 million."

In 1993 there were 140 million sheep; 1994, 130 million and 2007 there are now 86.3 million. 50% reduction? And lack of profitability eh? How about an honest answer for a change. The drought is knocking off thousands of sheep and yet you are frantically looking for ways to increase them and further their misery and your obscene profit margin.

Since your industry has already eroded the soil of some 58% of Australia's arid land mass, with your cloven hooved animals, when will you and your industry get the message that you are now the plague of the 21st century?

Added to that you kill or maim any other creature which comes within coo-ee of your cloven hooved stock which you force-feed with drugs and chemicals. Then you further deplete the health of the land by growing crops, laden with chemicals, to feed the animals which humans eat after they are slaughtered.

You've deprived native species of their habitats where these animals are now seriously threatened. Then there's the toxicity (and the yet unknown impacts) of the heinous 1080 bait to wild animals' and humans' eco-systems and yet you remain an ignorant cowpoke who bangs on incessantly about profit margins.

And here's a few statistics for your neck of the woods:

Key findings

"At a national level, Western Australia has 8 of 12 Australian biodiversity hotspots.

"At a global level, the South West is recognised as one of the world's 34 biodiversity hotspots.

"WA currently has 362 threatened plants, 199 threatened animals and 69 threatened ecological communities.

"Recovery plans have been developed for less than one-third of threatened species and ecological communities.

"There is ongoing loss and degradation of biodiversity in WA.

"Knowledge about many species and ecosystems and some threats to biodiversity remains inadequate." "State of the Environment - EPA"

Please Cowpoke, spare me any of your inane, ludicrous sophistry!

penny, thanks for basically copying out Andrew Bartletts 2003 senate submission about parts OF the Heilbron report.

http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/rrat_ctte/animal_welfare05/submissions/sub03a.pdf

What you seem to have done is taken secondhand info, and presented it as from the report itself. I'm sure that info wouldn't have been cherry picked, not to support a welfare bill, would it?

Why did Bartlett not mention that the discrepancy between the AMEIU and Heilbron was because of "direct jobs", I've already posted the AMEIU estimate of about 2500 direct jobs, and 17000 downstream jobs mentioned in Bartletts submission. http://www.liveexportshame.com/meat_union_release.htm

So we seem to be talking about a report on a report. How's that for accuracy. That would lead me to suggest you don't actually know whether or not Heilbron refers to direct jobs, but I'm more than happy to be proved wrong. Oh and don't forget the 40000 claim, still waiting.

As to Nicky's sky is falling journo(same one Bartlett relies on above), in his piece he talks about the Linder report stating
"the live animal export trade provides benefits in the form of higher farm gate prices for livestock producers ..."

Who's losing ground badly here?

Hi again all
Yabby, I have read your schechita reference and remain unconvinced, as I am by the halal reference PALE included in the last post. PALE, if I could make a suggestion, should it not be up to the your group, farners, politicians, and possibly AMIEU executives to meet your Muslim friends? I don't think it is for members of tbe public, regardless of the level of their concern and antipathy, to get involved at that level, not the least because you then create another potential "middle person" and invite conflicts of interest. Likewise, I don't think you can reasonably expect positive input from other animal advocacy groups given what you are encouraging here. You have a cognitive dissonance, if you like, in basic philosophy, and demeaning theirs, and their strategies, is perhaps less than helpful and doesn't assist yours.

Dickie, Peter Singer identified the damage that "exotic" animals (cloven hooved species) have done to the fragile Australian eco-systems back in the 1970s, so as usual you are correct in identifying those who continue to farm them as a plague on those systems. As for 1080, (sodium monofluroacetate) it is a brutal poison, but as soon as any animal is identified as a "pest" or "feral", any means of control and eradication, no matter how cruel, has become accepted. 1080 is, as a matter of interest, under suspicion down in Tasmania as a contributor to the Tasmanian Devil Facial Tumour epidemic, so that state is facing the exctinction of yet another endangered species.

Reports I've read say that farmers down there, and their lobby group, are screaming at the prospect of a ban on 1080 just the same. That must tell you something.

Nite all,
Nicky

pale, now you are doing it again.

Yabby did not say:
"Yabbysaid
Interestingly the Heilbron report states 10500 "lost" jobs, the AMIEU's claim. No wonder you are distancing yourself from it-"

I said:
Interestingly the Heilbron report states 10500 "lost" jobs, just over half of the AMIEU's claim. No wonder you are distancing yourself from it.
Posted by rojo, Friday, 4 January 2008 11:21:47 AM

Please, please try and get it right. You just can't get cut and paste that wrong accidently, can you? Omitting "just over half" makes a big difference to this statement.

Rojo, the mathematical constructs are certainly interesting. The Heilbron references I have included have come from my copy of the Heilbron Report, which is no doubt what Andrew Bartlett used too.

Extract of the Murray article the West Australian 17/04/2004 :

"An Australian Bureau of Agriculture and Resource Economics study found that during the Saudi embargo, Australian live sheep exported to the United Arab Emirates were processed there and re-exported to Saudi Arabia as chilled and frozen product.

"So much for the argument that Middle East clients refuse processed meat. So much for the pastoralists' argument that the sky would fall if live sheep exports ended.

"The report points out that the decline in live cattle exports between 1997 and 1999 because of the Asian economic crisis was from 428,000 head to 41,000 head year on year. Did pastoralists walk off their properties then?

"It states that "the live animal export trade provides benefits in the form of higher farm gate prices for livestock producers ..."

And the Lindner task force says the Federal Government was warned way back in 1983 that the demand of live sheep exporters "effectively raises the price which meat processors have to pay to secure sheep for slaughter in Australia".

"Finally, the report asserts that the Federal Government actively favours livestock exports over local processing by subsidising the cost of their inspection services.

"In August 2001, the Federal Government made a contribution to the live animal export program equivalent to 40 per cent of Australian Quarantine Inspection Service fees for live animal exports," the report says.

"The net effect has been to reduce charges to the live export sector by about 40 per cent while maintaining AQIS policy that fees be set on a 100 per cent cost recovery basis. Since the introduction of this subsidy, it is estimated that inspection charges for all animal live exports from WA have been subsidised by an annual amount of $400,000.

"By contrast, the larger abattoirs in WA each pay more than $400,000 per annum for AQIS meat inspection services."