Hi all

PALE, I can only say yet again (SIGH!) that I have no idea why the other organizations, Andrew (Bartlett, I assume) and Hugh Wirth chose not to work with you.

But I can assure you that I do not lack "knowledge of the industry", if you can call animal advocacy an "industry". There is nothing naive about noting that for all its claims over its 8 (?) years of existence PALE appears to have achieved nothing, just as it accuses all the others of the same (yet it is they who have provided irrefutable evidence that I believe will ultimately be the key to stopping the trade).

I also remind you that I never said that I accepted Hugh Wirth as a leader of anything, but if he can achieve some success here then good luck to him. The role of President of WSPA is a rotating position, not one he won through a merit process.

Your next comment is totally incomprehensible, and I cannot begin to imagine what the fraud squad will make of it. I can't wait to find out though. I don't know what TBO is.

"I must thank you however of written confirmation of the person who used the name of our organisation as her own name complete with a donation button to be hideing (sic) from us.

The fraud squad will be delighted with this evidence Nicky.

TBO I wasnt going to bother but as you have made it so easy. Tar".

As I said - I can't wait.

As for this ...
"Here is a short copy of just a few words to myself from Ikabel the evening before AFIC closed.

"But one thing that we did yesterday was passed a motion that AFIC believed that live animal trade is inherently cruel and that we will be lobbying to put a stop to this".

If they have "closed", what on earth use is this to anyone? And is this not the man whom you claim you hung up a phone on?

Nicky

Hi all

To continue from the last.

PALE, when did AFIC "close"? And if that is the case, with whom is Hugh Wirth and/or all your other "enemies" seeking to meet "behind PALE's back"?

I'm fascinated to know whose heads are going to "role" (sic) too, and at whose instigation.

As a matter of curiosity, is PALE an incorporated organization, and does it have an ABN? How many members does it have, and does it still have six lawyers including a QC working for it?

How many slaughterhouses has PALE succeeded in re-opening and where are they?
How many shipments/consignments of animals has PALE stopped from being exported live?
How many farmers has PALE set up as "co-joint" ventures (isn't that term redundant? It should be either "co" OR 'joint", not both)

I emailed RSPCA Queensland as you suggested asking about that submission on the proposed Standards/Guidelines, but got no response. Could you ask them if I might have a copy please, since they are clearly ignoring my request?

Nicky

Hi all

PALE, I can only say yet again (SIGH!)
Nicky

We have our own thoughts as to why Hugh never once responded to our i project working with Muslim Leaders to faze out live exports and replace with chilled.

As you said- You have no idea. Well Nicky IMOP its hardley good enough whatever Hughs reasons.

I dont trust the man. You are free to come to your own conclusion.
Your comment below=
But I can assure you that I do not lack "knowledge of the industry", if you can call animal advocacy an "industry".
pale replies.
Nicky you misunderstood me . I meant the meat industry. In order to fix the problem its vital to have people who understand the meat industry as well working with you.

I am afraid the two goes toghter and you cant sort one without the other. What goes on within the meat industry of course effects the animals welfare.
This is what I meant.

Your comment=
The role of President of WSPA is a rotating position, not one he won through a merit process.

Nicky Hugh been President of WSPA for years!
Your questions=

How many shipments/consignments of animals has PALE stopped from being exported live?

The Answer is some Nicky. However no where near enough to stop the trade. That takes a united approach and your friends including Hugh of WSPA and AA voiceless refuse to help.

If you want every plant and contact email Antje struthmann at pale.
Its too long and complicated to post here.

We helped AFIC and the Maylasian Government resume chilled which saw three plants re accredited and others etc.

Nickysaid

PALE, when did AFIC

Palecomments
I find it hard to believe you would know about AFIC. Its been on the news and the front page of the Australian.

'Hugh' was trying to meet with AFIC and Ikabel etc.

Remember he was asked to do just that for YEARS working under a MOU for Animal Welfare.
So Hugh what is it that you dont wish to say in front of us?

You had twenty years to approach the Muslim Leaders Hugh but did nothing? Why such interests now?



Nicky said
I'm fascinated ....
Palereplies

Personally I am looking at Hugh and RSPCA National AA etc

Nicky said
As a matter of curiosity,
...
Palereplies
Yes to both.



Pale working together with Muslims have made a dent in overseas transferring their orders from live to chilled. "Much more" to be done.
We could have done a great deal more towards diverting the orders from live to chilled but PETA WSPA and AA 'refused' to help. As you can imagine it’s a big job working alone for a reasonable new group.

Nicky said
I emailed RSPCA Queensland ...

Pale Comments.

Nicky I know they are very busy and understaffed. I also said to you in another thread when Ikabel and myself several years ago sat up into the late hours to send a sub RSPCA QLD finally said its was usually lodged by RSPCA National on behalf of all states as a united thing?

'I did point that out to you on purpose.'

I also offered you a copy of what pale and AFIC put together but I cant post it on olo so its up to you.

Some of the tracking and other ideas were quite good from AFIC etc.

The answer to your other question= Nicky its quite illegal to use someones name as your own when raising funds.
Never bothered TBO in chasing that person because I know despite that the person 'does care' about the animals.


Mind you I suppose thats a bit slack because we would be reasonsible for any funds raised etc.

Hi all

PALE, quite a bit of that is incomprehensible again. WHEN did this submission happen? Is it the 2003 submissions? I read all of those.

I have absolutely no idea whom you suspect of raising funds using someone else's name, so if you are accusing someone you should say so.

I think that the smartest thing I can do is to try Hugh Wirth himself (he probably won't respond to me either) to get to the bottom of all this.

Nicky

Hi all
Here is the sort of reason why people should have commented on the proposed Standards/Guidelines for "Animal Welfare":-

"Animals’ Angels inspectors trail a routine sheep transport from Katanning saleyard in West Australia to a feedlot near Adelaide in South Australia. The sheep destined for slaughter were sourced perhaps from a farm, transported to the saleyard, sold at a saleyard, then loaded and transported again; all without water and feed-a process of over 74 hours".

"In WA the animals must not be transported for more than 30 hours without water. The journey time alone was 52 hours. There are also problems with differences in WA law and South Australian law which allow different transport/water deprivation times. The WA driver was reluctant to assist two downer sheep and it appears clear it was these two who died along with some other sheep on the way. Luckily the

"Police arrived while the driver parked at the border for 6 ½ hours- the sheep standing in the hot transport crate without much air flow. The Police were excellent help and made sure the dying sheep was killed efficiently as possible. Only 1 driver at a time transports the animals, which is of great concern especially if there is an accident. During the WA border to Adelaide-SA period the SA driver was very ill and asked Animals’ Angels to get him an ambulance then take care of the sheep and dogs while he went to hospital. This delay put extra pressure on the already stressed animals. Some died as a result of the WA-SA transportation. We will be taking our full investigation to the proper authorities".

Animals Angels

Of course, as detailed in the Handle with Care report, there is no proper policing of these journeys, and no provision in the proposals for any improvements; in fact they are worse than the existing CoPs (also enforceable).

http://www.liveexportshame.com/news2/index.php?topic=4473.msg5374;topicseen#msg5374

Nicky