Nicky, the live shippers pay fee for service, just like the meatworks
do. Its just that live animals are not yet food, so there is less
inspecting to do, then for instance meat going to the US or Europe,
where every carcass has to be inspected.

The nationality of the crew does not matter a darn. The vets on
board are Australian, the captain answers to AQIS. In the case
of Wellards, they do actually train their crew here. Head stockmen
are commonly Australians.

Merinos were never bred for the live trade, the trade took them as
they were available by the millions, with few other markets. I have
actually given away a truckload of 400 sheep in the early nineties,
as it was easier then having to shoot and bury them. The meat
of merinos used to be the byproduct of the wool industry, but with
the collapse of wool, that is now all changing. Yup, breeds more
suitable for shipping are indeed being developed.

Gertrude, Greens went broke due to really slack management, despite
their near monopoly. There are no Elders or other conspiracy theories
as you imagine. No loss of jobs either, as you imagine. Where the
new owners cut back on staff, those people were snapped up elsewhere,
if they wanted work. Most decided to stay in Harvey, as its not
a bad spot. Wammco offered those people jobs, IIRC something like
two accepted.

Nicky
I thought of that but it wouldnt work because they have no knowledge of the project we have all worked on together for years.
After saying that we would happily hand it over once they were comfortable and things were back on track.

The link below is basically our project after years of hard work.

The meeting is to discuss again Halal Slaughter In Australia,. I hope to be able to get this back on track as the way it was first drafted. = Which is Slaughter here and work on introducing gass- Export if neccessary whole Carcuss through AQIS to JAKIM.

RSPCA and Head Rabbi Have agreed to attend but you know as well As I do that wont clinch in.

You may say you would not be of any value but we need others and you would be helpful. There needs to be bonds and working friendships born from MOUs with Animal Welfare people in each state of Australia.

Any further MOUs should not only be with pale. They should be with people like Dawn Yourself Trish Brown and Verna From HS if AA wont be involved.

We can only do our bit of bringing this back before its too late.

However without a larger net work being involved state to state to assist in finding farmers who free range and are interested in a better price for human standards we are waisting our time.

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:YHisasx0d0UJ:www.dfat.gov.au/geo/malaysia/fta/scoping_study.doc+aqis+rejects+meat+halal+export+license&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=au

Yabby

Read the Enquiry into WA and tell me Elders and AWB and LandMark did not close the plant to redivert it to live?

I was talking about your boy kym Chance not the Greens.
Hes on the other team Yabby, Hello? Is anybody home?
After all how on earth would you get elected if you spoke out about Live Animals Exports in WA?
Really Yabby Whay have you got in your water , down there?

Gertrude, this is where you drift on on your little conspiracy
theories, which are basically a crock of imagination. Thinking
outside the square is all very well, but if you can't even think
inside the square or think rationally, you are in deep crap lol.

Elders and Landmark, as agents, were owed millions for the cattle
that farmers had supplied. Harvey Beef had not paid attention to
cashflow and had wandered off on these various projects, like a large
feedlotting venture and other things. A company who does not pay
bills on time, will get sold off by creditors, that is business
reality!

A number of companies scrambled to buy that plant and operate it,
as everyone knew it could be a goldmine if operated correctly, so
closing it because of the live trade is nothing but imagination.
That is exactly what happened, it is now owned by Singapore interests.
Elders, T&R, plus a number of other operators were the losing bidders.

The reason that no company wants to build a Greenfields site is that
it is simply too hard to go through the red tape, to get all the
permits. That is why I have been suggesting a Govt facilitator.

Kim Chance is in no camp. He is quite rational in understanding
the value and importance of the live trade to WA. Because he
is not a vegetarian animal liberationist, you condem him for not
being in your camp. Kim Chance relies on more then 60 Minutes
docos from years ago, for his information.

Hi all
Yabby, I'm with PALE about Kim (Fat) Chance. If anyone has a live export agenda he does. The latest now is your Minister Ravlich interfering in judicial process instructing the WA State Solicitor to drop the Al Kuwait appeal. Highly improper, and shows the lengths to which the industry and the WA government are prepared to go to pander to live export farmers.

And what a happy coincidence that AQIS doesn't do inspections because the "animals are not food yet". You may not be aware that AMSA handed over the animal welfare matters to AQIS on the basis that it doesn't know anything about animals. AQIS doesn't do it at all really, for several reasons (some as delightfully pointed out by PALE - thanks for that) - it can't be bothered, and it doesn't know anything about ships, to name just two.

As for believing a captain from a third world ship would have the slightest interest (not to mention ethical standards) in providing accurate data, get a grip. And don't tell me they are responsible to AQIS either, they respond to the highest bidder. I would suggest also that anyone who works as a stock (person? Did the delightful Annabelle Coppin not take a trip on the re-badged several times Rodolfo Mata/Stella Deneb for a couple of days to Indonesia? But not, you note, to slaughterhouses) and a veterinarian would also have their own agendas, at the bidding of the exporters, to say what they want said, particularly since AQIS reports (such as they are) are now public property. Conspiracy theories? They're damn right.

Think about it. They've got people like you believing them.

PALE, you had a good relationship with HSI, did you not? Perhaps that would be a better avenue to pursue, or perhaps Carole de Fraga at CIWF. If PALE and Animals Australia are so diammetrically opposed, perhaps you might be able to find some common ground that way. BTW, there are Draft Standards for the Transport of Livestock (I think that's the title) now available for public comment.

Cheers
Nicky

Nicky, you are correct, lots of people have lots of agendas, but one thing you
cannot dispute. Nobody pays for dead livestock so it is in eveyone’s interest,
from the captain to the stockmen, that animals arrive alive and in good condition.

It is in nobody’s interest, that livestock die on board a ship.

Yes, things can go wrong, as they can with airlines, when planes crash and people
die. But those are simply due to the fact that humans are fallible and make mistakes
every day. Nobody sets out with that intention, except perhaps for Osama and Co.

If the court decision in WA had gone your way, you would now be singing the praises
of the WA Govt. As you don’t like the decision, of course you will try to shoot the
messenger. Duh..

AQIS do in fact inspect live sheep, just not at the intensity of what happens in a meatworks, for obvious reasons.

I remind you that Siba ships are not a third world shipping company, but Italian.
Even NZ use their services to transport breeding livestock to places like Mexico.

As to Kim Chance, he is far better informed about the live trade then both you
and Gertrude, so makes more rational decisions. But shoot the messenger as
per normal, it is what is expected from you :)

Not everyone on this planet feels sick at the smell of some dogs bones Nicky,
so perhaps you should accept just how extreme your views and emotions are in
this case, compared to us more normal people

Yabby, Siba Ships may be Italian, but what nationality is the crew? Filipino or equivalent standard where animal cruelty is the norm?

And the BOTTOM LINE is that Ministers of the Crown are bound by the Constitution not to interfere in matters of a judicial nature. It's called the "separation of powers". The decision did not go "against us", as you state, cruelty WAS found to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. And it was the WA Solicitor General who lodged the appeal. Ravlich has compromised herself and her office, as well as casting into doubt the expertise of her Department and that of the Attorney General into question. Most improper, and smells of corruption in a big way. I might add that her qualifications, such as they are, are in Education (didn't she cause trouble in that portfolio too?), not Law or Veterinary Science, which begs the question about her expertise to even comment, much less go this far. But that must be the nature of politics in WA. As for Fat Chance, I'll bet he's a farmer (or his relatives and/or best mates are).

Also, everyone knows the conditions under which livestock are loaded (read the court transcript) and why it doesn't matter if a few thousand die. Much less the conditions under which they die.

Finally, if it has been known forever about Merinos, it seems rather unconscionable that they have been sending them for three decades or more regardless (just because they bred too many and they stopped producing the best wool).

Cheers
Nicky