Hi all
Some really interesting comment there. Belly, I'm with PALE on the whips - who checks the trainers? "Bullies" is quite an understatement. And I'm with PALE too on the feeding of the "poor masses" in the "underdeveloped countries" - are we not talking about the people who hold a lot of the world to ransom with oil? One is Dubai, which just brought the QEII to turn into a floating hotel. PALE is possibly also right about farm slaughtering - providing it IS done with a well-placed bullet, based on what I've seen go on on trucks and in saleyards. They aren't checked either (see the story about the current case of the goats in the northern territory, for example).

For the record, I also admire very much how PF cares for her animals.

PALE, one question - you said "stunned or halal". Halal slaughter, as I understand it, is carried out in Australia WITH stunning in some form, electrical with sheep, is it not? The cases in Victoria were to do with kosher, not halal.

If Yabby feels that the meat industry in WA is so appalling, perhaps he should be talking to people like Roger Fletcher and Graeme Haynes; they would be the people to start with, then the relevant government department, and he could (convincingly, is his efforts on this forum are any indication) point clearly to what he says are the "rip-offs". As for using the term "live exporters" and "honesty" in the same sentence - they would be the greatest oxymorons we could ever hope to see here (I'll resist the temptation to say "from a moron"). Even the mortality reports published by AQIS are based on ship's captains' figures ... need I say more?

I'm going to start a new discussion about the Minister for Local Government in WA intervening in the appeal of the "Al Kuwait case". Highly inappropriate and improper behaviour for a government Minister, and suggestive of undue influence over the WA government by the live export industry.

Cheers
Nicky

*If Yabby feels that the meat industry in WA is so appalling, perhaps he should be talking to people like Roger Fletcher*

Nicky, your total naivety about business is very sweet, but
to put it bluntly, you really don't have a clue :)

I remind you that these guys are quite clear, they are not
a charity, they buy their sheep as cheaply as possible!

Nearly every week I compare the mutton price in Katanning or
Midland, with that of Dubbo, where Roger has his other works.
It might be 90c or 1$ a kg in WA, 1.80-2 $ in Dubbo, those
are roughly the rates right now, IIRC.

I'm told that Roger buys around 40'000 sheep a week in WA,
say at 20kg each, so lets say 20 bucks without skins.
His Eastern States price, due to competition, would be close
to double that. My back of the envelope calculation tells
me that he would be picking up an extra 800'000 $ a week on
those figures, which is not to be sneezed at.

Roger Fletcher would be thanking Allah every day that Monty
House convinced him to come to WA !

Nicky it is near time I left the thread interested in the subject but debate sometimes hurts.
No push over I can handle it but how could you ask about stingers then after I told you know more than me in just a few posts?
yabby is near the truth, in fact much nearer than most who post on these animal welfare threads most of the time.
I can slug it out in front of 400 workers or 10 bosses but debate on these subjects here is not without mud slinging.
What lead you to believe I supported the use of whips?

I read every post, look I have been censored for flaming you, but was referring to another poster.
I see you subjected to insults as bad as those I get, time and again I side step threads or leave early to avoid people.

I think the use of stingers in racing is wrong, always.
Whips are controlled by law miss use of them is wrong, refusal to use them could kill some one at times , cattle can kill.
I saw PF s poll, even wanted to fill it in , always thought it would be unwise.
I am not a bully not unaware of animal needs want better practices less cruelty but know some animal welfare groups are far better than others.
Nicky you and I are from different sides of this debate, but I truly thought you would not use fallacy's and wrong information as debating tools.
stingers are rarely used in racing, those who do get 6 months maybe more for that crime away from racing and income.
This thread was about what meat we buy and why, fair enough we knew it would spread but is the future of such debates open debate? do we learn what others think?
Those who think different than us have every right to do so, even those who display some truly weird ideas here.
But to farm a post, hoping to find something to twist into another shape is a symptom of something else.

Rehctub
Umm, Thanks but once the Carcass is cut that’s it – isn’t it.

I mean you cant actually trace each cut can you?

So we can trace a carcass but not really a cut once it`s left the butcher shop.

Rehctub.said

Sorry, but from the picture Yabby has painted who would want to go there. Perhaps Port Arthur was a bad choice for a penal colony hey!

Pale replies
Thanks for your reply. I didn’t mean go there. I just meant order direct from there.

Fletcher has no competition so you’d buy at half the price your paying most probably now.

It could be sold on to other butchers. Don’t worry thinking out loud.
You didn’t offend me.

fyi http://www.halakindmeats.com/

you rehctub said

Sorry, but from the picture Yabby has painted who would want to go there. Perhaps Port Arthur was a bad choice for a penal colony hey!

pale replies.

Yes I am surprised they let him out at all:)

Speaking of = Yabbs Said

What goes on in the West Australian meat industry
is a scandal, that should be investigated by some corruption
commission.

Pale replies
Your priceless Yabby Hilarious!

Yabby said
Alot would change, if Kim Chance got off his proverbial arse, just
a little bit.

Pale replies.
Yabby don’t you get it yet. Kim Chance is doing what he’s paid for. Protecting the low life shipping Agents by keeping live exports strong.
AWB operate from there and Elders is their head office.

Trust Me I know

Nicky Can you remember which post I put that Enquiry into WA Abattoirs on?

We should show it to Rehctub.Speaking of shaved cuts-

Whats happening abaout Billl The Dill and the Enquiry PF mentioned.

I think that would be a walk in the park if you can help.

Hows the foot?

Nicky said-

PALE, one question - you said "stunned or halal". ...
pale replies
Umm Sorry Which cases in Victoria ? My fault cant keep up sorry.

Re Halal pre stunned Question. Well Nicky Yes thats correct BUT more and more plants are not pre stunning. Muslims are using Kosher as an example.
Quite rightly too I would suggest because Kosher is indeed the 'most' cruel.
I am going to be honest with you.

I am not a hundred percent sure there isnt some argument about which is the best method.

There are some real horror stories when the stun gun goes wrong.

I finally got RSPCA National to agree to meet with AFIC heads and others.

Trouble Is I cant see it being much help unless Animals Australia attend as well and they have always refused.

Do you know where Trish Brown is.? We need some others to attend along with RSPCA National Otherwise I am waisting my time.

Glenyse is more capable of sitting down and talking with these people than RSPCA. She has quite a bit of knowledge as you know and years of facts and events in her head.

Can you think of anybody else if I can get Bidda etc? Bidda And Glenyce would be good and anyone she wanted to bring is ok.
The head Rabbi has also agreed to attend so it could be an interesting meeting with maybe some good outcome for the animals.


Any advise or suggestions would be mostly appreciated Nicky. I dont suppose you might like to look at this as a project of your would you?
We would be available to advise you and I would give you all the contacts to set this up. We cant cope with the shear volume of work to be honest and this oportunity for the Animals should not be missed.
We would even through in some plant owners and a good lawyer to assist you at our cost- your fairs and expenses.

Nicky said
"Al Kuwait case". ...

pale Umm, Well lets tie it in with Bills Enquiry that PF posted

Yabbsaid

Nicky, I remind you ...
Palecomments
Ar, correct Yabby.

It’s another example of how this industry has been made totally dysfunctional to suit the agenda of a 'few'

What Nicky needs to know is the buyers in ME are 'anything but' mean or poor.

In truth is Nicky because of the Governments ‘support’ of those few companies "with invested interests and infrastructure"-
and also including huge subs and grants along with 'your tax' it is The Government who are keeping the farmers from the enormous oportunitys of dealing with their Muslim buyers and getting a even better price!

The Government will NOT support program’s to introduce ME and Muslim people to Australian Farmers at grass roots level.

Oh No, of course not, because that would be telling.

Telling The Australian Farmers they have been ripped off.

"A Well 'oiled' system."

The truth is Nicky there are plenty of good offers that farmers are missing out on.

Why? Because they wont think outside the square the live in so rely on the markets =

Where of course their stock is purchased by you guessed it the Agents for the shipping markets.

Now you would 'think' by now they may have woken up to the fact that the shipping agent or buying agents must be making a killing.

Get rid of the shipping agent or buying agents for the ships and see how much more the farmer will get.

It really is that simply.

However we must do it ourselves through the industry because pigs might fly before the Government loose their great party donations from their favorite mates in the Industry.

This is why lobbying the Government is useless - because they are in bed with the Live Animal Shipping Agents
Big Time.

All the farmers have got to do to get a better price is talk with ME reps direct and invite them to their farms.

All thats stopping this is the Government in bed with the Live Exporters.

So we must go and talk direct to ME.

The Saudi will sort the Government.

Cheers