Thanks very much for all that, everyone. Yabby, I can't think of anywhere I would rather spend time than on a farm, and I wish I could. And I swear to you, I am not writing a report on this for anyone; in fact at present I'm not writing reports at all. Believe it or not, the work I am involved in at the moment has to do with lecturing, prison research, forensic and mental health tribunals (people), disability issues and guardianship matters .... don't ask.

When I don't know about something at least you could give me credit for asking! Your information was great too, thanks. But to clarify - if you are in a shearing shed with very woolly sheep, is such a device even effective? PALE, horses do not have as tough hides as cattle, I suspect, and are also much flightier animals. Does anyone know if they are used in horse racing at all? PALE, if you can think of the case, or even the RSPCA officer, that would be great; if it's NSW I may be able to track him/her down even. Does anyone know anything about electro-immobilization too?

And PALE, thanks for your good wishes. I'm hoping to get it Xrayed tomorrow, because it may have some fractures, which would account for the PAIN!

Cheers
Nicky

Nicky
If it’s swollen it might be hair line factures which is just great for arthritis. Often it doesn’t even show in x-rays. Although bad bruising can be even worse long term. Did you do it horse riding?
Regarding the prodders of course like anything else we would have to be looking at weight. If a small child runs into a cattle fence it clearly has a great effect than a beast. This is the second time in a year I have needed the information that I once used to know. Although things change. I *think they took some of the old battery prodders off the market.
Last year when the Gold Coast Casino held a Rodeo I called the local police and asked them were they supervising the use of prodders and other equiptement.

The guy thought I was mad and pulling his leg. So much for the new pledge from the State Police Commissioners to educate the trainee’s .Must says I was impressed however by the service. A return phone call from police head quarters asking us were we going there :)

So I too require the information to write and request police attend each rodeo to ensure codes are enforced etc etc.

Yabby could probably do with a lesson in horse riding. So when your better we should drop in and teach him :)

BTW Speaking of prisons did you know several are growing and doing their own slaughtering? Bit of a worry IMOP. Don’t know how you feel about it.
Perhaps later on we could look into it a bit more.

With all the Animals now in feed lots and intensive there is a huge argument for a veggie diet more than ever. If we don’t sit back down with the Muslims I think the veggie fast food stores might be my next step.

It would be a real eye opener to the public to see Animals being slaughtered with their free video and member of the common decency club.
I will try to get your info by friday .

Nicky it has always been illegal to use them in horse racing.
Long before they became a tool for livestock use they have been used in the training of horses, but very long term disqualifications take place if caught.
A racing person I think the crooks may use them, a very Small minority, it is not to inflict pain but the shock.
It was higher voltage and aimed at getting the horse to react to the whip .
I have handled many cattle hides more than you would care to know and never seen a burn not one , but here in NSW barbed wire marks are on near every one.
Yabby is right farmers do not harm animals just because they can.
In truth, sorry but honestly true cattle prods do more good than harm.
I am a ham radio operator and know a little about electronics, am hugely amused by the thought those dry cell battery's could burn flesh!
A tazer is a far different thing but I no idea who would use them on cattle or sheep.

Nicky

http://www.csiro.au/people/Drewe.Ferguson--ci_pubHist-1.html

Warner R, Ferguson DM, Cottrell J, Knee B. 2007. Acute stress induced by the use of electric prodders pre-slaughter causes tougher beef meat. Australian Journal of Experimental Agriculture. 47: 782-788.

Blache D, Ferguson DM. 2005. Towards improving welfare of farmed sheep: simple assessment and heritability of emotional reactivity. From Darwin to Dawkins: the science and implications of animal sentience. Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre, London. Compassion in World Farming Trust, London.

Blanche D, Ferguson DM. 2005. Boost for lamb survival - select for calm ewes. Shaw SE, Andrews-Baxter R. (eds). Agribusiness sheep updates. Parmelia Hilton hotel, Perth. Dept. of Agriculture, Perth.

Drake KA, Ferguson DM, Hinch G, Cook CJ, Blache D. 2005. Development of a fear potentiation model to assess anxiety in sheep. From Darwin to Dawkins: the science and implications of animal sentience. Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre, London. Compassion in World Farming Trust, London.

http://www.publish.csiro.au/?paper=EA05155

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:tYyi65fZtnIJ:www.dpiw.tas.gov.au/inter.nsf/Attachments/EGIL-52F6Z8/%24FILE/AnimalWelfareStdNo11.pdf+reasearch+csiro+electric+prodders+animals&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=au

I understand this is not what you requested and I am trying to track the information down on the cases RSPCA have charged men within both industries.
Speaking of pain try a bundy and mersyndol.

*I think the veggie fast food stores might be my next step.
It would be a real eye opener to the public to see Animals being slaughtered with their free video and member of the common decency club.*

Ah Gertrude, so you plan to sabotage our meat industry with
emotion, same tactic as the Catholics!

We'll have to protest outside your shop, show people pictures
of what Gertrude will look like when the maggots move in and
chew up her carcass one day. That will put them clean off
any thoughts of dinner :)

.

Well how we got from meat prices to prodders is a mystery but all I can tell you is that they hurt like you know what. Unless of course you are a cow or bullock.

You see we are talking about an animal that is usually 5 to 10 times our weight, leans against a barbed wire fence without flinching and gets it's head trapped in a brace just to have a needle in it's rear end.

None of which realy hurts, so it all relevent. Yes prodders do hurt the animal but it's no more than like us getting a pin prick really.

As for the comment on 'what do Asians do with pork bones'. Well, we are talking about a race that can make a soup out of a dish cloth if they wanted to and we would enjoy it. No racisim intended.

With regards to the 'Hogget v Lamb' debate.

Recent changes to the carcase grading standards mean that a lamb can still be classed as a lamb unless the first two teeth have broken the skin. Prior to this if the teeth were evident in the jaw they were classed as hoggets.

My advise. Avoid cheap lamb as farmers don't usually sell lamb cheaply, agents don't cut commisions, truckies don't usually reduce their rates and butchers try not to work for nothing.

Put in english, there is no such thing as 'good lamb, cheap'!

So think long and hard before you buy that $3.99Kg side of lamb!