Tammy Jo....thanx for the serious attempt at constructive dialogue :)

You did address a specific issue. "Domestic violence against women"
You supplied an alternative view.. (noticably from a women).. and I've read such alternative views many times.

The problem comes in that 'progressive, western educated female muslims' tend to share that kind of alternative view, whereas Males in Islamic countries do not. If you look on youtube, you'll find countless examples of Sheikhs and Imams outlining just how you can and cannot beat your wife in fulfillment of the Quran. So, in reality it should come down to the Sharia teaching, which includes a concensus of the Scholars, rather than the opinion piece of some woman who prefers a more enlightened view of Islam.

Tammy.. you didn't address the issue of sexual abuse of female captives. I know the usual polimics/apologetics, 'Islam did away with Slavery over time' :) but that's just a scam. They still practice slavey now, and had even white slaves which caused the Barbary wars with the USA in 1801.

FRANK. you do love the adhominem don't you "You are dishonest/Hypocrite"
My response? I'll just stick to the issue.

Maududi's critic in that instance was over his political system, not his understanding of the Quran in 65:4 You might wish to compare the political 'system' of Maududi with that of Mohammad..and then make your own judgement about your 'scholar' who criticizes Maududi.

What you failed to establish, (by creating a straw man) is that the scholar you cite, disagrees with Maududi on the POINT I raised. (65:4)
That is what you need to do, to prove me wrong. (till then,my point remains unchallenged by serious debate.)

Pale,
Is the slaughter of animals governed by the Feds or the States?

If our Governments have not insisted that Islamic slaughter of animals follow our rules, it is discrimination to favour a minority.
The same as our Governments have not prosecuted anyone for carrying out FGM. There is ample evidence to prosecute the parents for child abuse and it is against the law in all states.

I hope A Syneonakis reads about this discrimination that favours ethnic groups

CJ

Thanks for the advice, however pretending to be a gay female isn't nearly as scary for the evangelist as a gay male.

Why do you think would be?

I've also tried pretending to be a satanist - they (the evangelists) go to some special school to train in "not listening" and repeating themselves like broken records.

Maybe I should say I am a Muslim - now that would be scary...

;-)

Cheers

Fractelle, Hello everyone Tammyjo Bozzie

Fractrelle
You’re “absolutely right”. I would however just like to add that it’s not your average Aussie family creating Diversity. It’s the Government as our leaders.

It is the irresponsible Governments that fail to teach the Muslim Leaders that we are all one in Australia.
As I have explained there is no difference between law and religion. Islam is unique in that way. So of course without clear leadership how are these people expected to assimilate.
After all they are only doing what they have always done. The problem with that Fractelle is the Government then must make ‘special allowances’ to enable to Muslims to operate because they are hugely involved in food and trade and slaughter and exporting and funding exporting and much more.

How are they going to learn to be one of us if they are getting messages from the Government they don’t have to comply with the rest of us?

If they as leaders get mixed messages from the Government how on earth are these same leaders going to teach their flock to assimilate.
When we are not happy with our Prime Minister or any other leader we speak out. That is a democracy. When someone speaks out about Muslim Leaders or people you all cry racism. Well that racism revered. I do not have a problem with Muslims but I question the integrity and attitude of ‘some’ of the Muslims for very good reason.

They are no different to the rest of us and they must not be treated that way

Bozzie. I am pleased you came back to this thread. As I said to others you can not discuss Muslim people by going world wide and coming back here because here is NOTHING like Islamic Councils overseas.

We have some great Muslim people world wide but a scolla from wherever has no effect on Councils here. Even between for example Melbourne and Sydney Islamic Councils is a huge difference in teachings.
I would like to discuss Australia sensibly with you if that is ok.?

To be contiuned

Pale,
You said. "It is the irresponsible Governments that fail to teach Muslim Leaders that we are all one in Australia"

True. And you could add. Not only muslim leaders, but all incoming migrants. Also that our laws take precedence over any cultural or religious practices.

One of the main reasons I am so against Multiculturalism, as practiced here, Is that it wrongly gives the impression that migrants can carry on exactly as they did in their country of origin. No wonder that some get offended when they see scantily clad people at beaches, females in revealing clothes in public, young females without chaperones, nativity scenes at Malls at Xmas or they find they cannot lawfully eat dog meat, dolphin or other foods they used to be able to. Nobody told them untill they arrived.

I think that many migrants, because of MC, have been given misleading information or impressions about what they could do here. That is why some cultural practices, like FGM, are still carried on here.

Did you know that it is only in the later part of last year that moves were made to supply PROSPECTIVE migrants with information about our society, community and culture. I hope they are now getting that info, because previously they had to rely on word of mouth or their own resources to find out about us. Their friends and relos here want them to come, so they are not going to tell them about things that they may not like. Our governments did give them some info but only AFTER their visa had been approved. Which is far too late as they have made their decission to come.

When they ask friends about FGM, for example, they are told 'Don't worry, we just do it and the Government doesn't care'

Banjo: "they find they cannot lawfully eat dog meat, dolphin or other foods they used to be able to"

Truly bizarre. Examples and evidence please?

"When they ask friends about FGM, for example, they are told 'Don't worry, we just do it and the Government doesn't care'"

Again - evidence please.

PALE&IF: Please do yourself a favour and run a spellchecker through your posts. "Scolla" indeed. Also, you may have dealings with some Muslims, but your understanding of Islam is superficial at best. Even Boazy's more knowledgeable than you on matters of Islamic doctrine, albeit in a somewhat more malevolent way.