What a total waste of time this is! Most Muslims are probably just following on with their relgion because their parents did - like most other people. So, a Muslim is not necessarily nasty or bad, personally.

However, Islam has always been, and will always be a most IMMODERATE and intolerant relgion, seeking to control not only the lives of its followers, but also the lives of infidels who are meant to convert to Islam or die.

Continuing discussions on Islam simple show the total ignorance of the fringe dwellers who haunt OLO, and who don't know their backsides from their elbows.

Mr. Right

Ar, At last someone to call it like it is . However there is no reason if we are sensible Australia can not be the exception and that is what we are trying to tell people.

However Bozzie is too busy highlighting the history of the world and dragging all of the problems along with him right back here to Australia.

I will share with you just part of a letter from one of our many lawyers who has been working with us and our MOU with Muslim Leaders of Australia. As I don’t know you I will post our link so you can see the work I am speaking of.btw we have worked with then almost six years. Quite long enough to give a ‘informed’ opinion

http://www.halakindmeats.com/

Here is ‘part’ of our lawyers letter.

No I did not request a meeting with the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs as we had no firm proposal to put to him due to the muslims doing their usual backflip. We also heard no more on Paradise Country.

Wendy, irrespective of what the Muslims may have signed you and I know they have not honoured the MOU nor have they really proceeded in the spirit of the document. To them the MOU really means nothing if you judge by their conduct to date. Even if they are in breach they know you will not sue them and if you do what is the loss? It is an only an MOU after all.

I believe it premature to see Rudd unless you have some mandate/agreement with the Muslims – and to date they just jerk us infidels around. Without a concrete proposal and the ability to say it has the full support of both HKM, Animal Rights, etc and they will just blow us off and say come back when you have something.

Mr Right

There ARE good Muslims who want to keep Australia a happy multi culture country. The thing is nobody understands that people are just people.

We must support those ones.

BOAZ: “…come back and tell me 'you (i.e. BOAZ) are distorting' and how.”

For starters, BOAZ, you look for those bits of ‘evidence’ that fit with your pre-judgement while turning away from any evidence that is incongruent.

You’re basically dishonest.

For every one of your selective ‘baddies’ from Islam I can find an equivalent ‘baddy’ from Christianity.

So, for example, for your 14th century ‘baddy’ Abu Al-Fida, 'Imad Ad-Din Isma'il bin 'Umar bin Kathir Al-Qurashi Al-Busrawi, I’ll give you the Spanish inquisition which used extreme torture against Jews, Moors, Protestants and recalcitrant Catholics. And all in the name of Christianity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition

Alternatively, it’s not hard to find Islamic scholars to challenge every one of your selected Islamic scholars. For example, for your ‘baddy’ Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi, even within the very Wikipedia article you cite, there is Abelwahab Meddeb: "Mawdudi constructed a coherent political system, which follows wholly from a manipulation" of the Arabic word 'hukm'. The Quran contains the phrase `Hukm is God's alone,` thus, Maududi argues that God must govern - - in the form of Sharia law. But Meddeb argues that a full reading of the ayah reveals that 'hukm' refers to God's superiority over pagan idols, not God’s role in government.

But you choose to ignore critics of Ala Maududi because it doesn't suit your pre-judged position.

There are plenty of scholars far more expert than BOAZ who challenge the sort of selective text trawling that BOAZ engages in. Text trawling – looking for quotes that suit your position and denying quotes that don’t suit – is common practice among fanatics.

As for decrying personal attacks on you, trawl through your own performances, BOAZ. Hypocrite

Mr Boaz David,

After reading what other posters have said on this thread - and re-reading both your and my postings I feel that it's time for us to
"bury the hatchet" so to speak. Preferably, not in each other's heads.

I apologise to you for any offense that I may have caused you. I am not trying to tell you what to think. (I was simply defending myself). However, be that as it may. Kindly accept my apology - and lets call it quits to this pointless arguing.

Let us debate like adults (if we feel so inclined) and not like petulant children. Let's move on and let the matter rest. I feel that enough has been said on the subject.

You have your way of viewing things. I have mine. Just because we don't agree does not make me right or you wrong (or vice versa). It only means - we view things from different angles. But according to the laws of civilized debate,
let us respect each other's right to differ in opinion.

I will cease to try to convince you to change your point of view. I would appreciate that you extend the same courtesy to me.

Cheers.

Islam is a complicated religion (but aren’t they all!). Its not all bad- I simply believe that it is misunderstood. And we fear what we do not know therefore the scaremongering that occurs reinforces this fear and ignorance.

The extremist Muslims taint the essence of what is kind and good about the non-extremists or perhaps alternatively termed the ‘moderate Muslims.’ So I ask myself -What exactly is a Moderate Muslim? What do they believe? I further ponder the question of why we even need a term such as a Moderate Muslim but that’s another story.

Anyway, in search for an answer I came across an article of which I’ve quoted a paragraph and for anyone interested have enclosed the URL link- it does make for interesting reading and in fact it is an interesting and educational web site as well.

“Moderate Muslims aspire for a society – a city of virtue -- that will treat all people with dignity and respect. There will be no room for political or normative intimidation. Individuals will aspire to live an ethical life because they recognize its desirability. Communities will compete in doing good and politics will seek to encourage good and forbid evil. They believe that the internalization of the message of Islam can bring about the social transformation necessary for the establishment of the virtuous city. The only arena in which Moderate Muslims permit excess is in idealism.” –Mugtedar Khan, Ph.D

http://www.islamfortoday.com/khan08.htm

I think it sounds like a good start.

"a city of virtue"

That's nice.