Vanilla,
The <<moderate>> turks you said in really was a conservative privileged bureaucracy who use the Islam threat to keep their privileges and continue oppressing the Turks. Very often the <<moderate >> turks used the military to violate the democracy and establish junta. Thousands of Unionists, politicians, writers or human right activists went in prison from the turks you call moderates. The current Prime minister went in prison because he read a religious poem. The truth is that the moderate Muslims not the seculars have changed the system, move the military out from politics and drive the country to European Union. Personally although I am atheist I support the moderate Islamic Turkish Government because I know they promote the democracy, human rights and they are the only one to reform the Islam. Until now we have had very encouraged results although they had big problems with the military.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

As predicted... most follow ups were ad hominems.. bless you all for proving my point :)

FOXY.. You are using the old standby 'ur a bad Christian' ploy rather than "You are wrong..and here is why" Point a), b) c) etc.

So...while I warm to all your biblical quotations, they alter nothing of the issue itself. I've seldom seen such denial as I see in you and frank. CJ just loves to 'watch' and throw in the odd snipe so I don't worry about him.

IMPORTANT: Foxy you gave me those wonderful quotes in order to assist me in (Your words) 'dealing with PEOPLE of other beliefs'. Now.. it would be more appropriate for you to say "other beliefs" because it is not 'people' I am discussing...it is "beliefs". Strange as it might seem..there is actually a difference.


FRANK....is partly on the right track..but he again did not actually argue THE POINT...he argued.. 'me'.

<<"His assertions (about Islam) is as much a total distortion as saying the Bible allows holy wars, inquisitory torture, the burning of 'witches', polygamy and incest.>>

WEAKNESS in Franks position. He did not try in the slightest to actually address even one of the points I made. All he did was say 'your totally distorting' not 'partially'..but 'totally'....

Lets take ONE issue. 'Child abuse'. Argue not with 'me'....argue with

Abu Al-Fida, 'Imad Ad-Din Isma'il bin 'Umar bin Kathir Al-Qurashi Al-Busrawi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Kathir

Ibn Kathir was renowned for his great memory regarding the sayings of Muhammad and the entire Qur'an. Ibn Kathir is known as a qadi, a master scholar of history, and a mufassir (Qur'an commentator). Ibn Kathir saw himself as a Shafi scholar.

Or.. argue with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Abul_Ala_Maududi

Because it is THEY who confirm what I say. I've given reference b4, but let me repeat. (Maududi)

http://www.tafheem.net/main.html
1/ Click onleft sidebar at 'At Talaaq' (surah 65)
2/ Scroll down to 65:4
3/ Scroll down to paragraph *13
4/ Read
Then come back and tell me 'you are distorting' and how.

Horus

You seems the only person to have picked up on the main issue for this this country.

I hope you return because we need someone with the intelligence that’s prepared to listen. Perhaps we could post to you for a while.

Bozzie Said Hi Pale...

The vese you quoted…

As for the invite... still don't know about it.

Pale replies

David to be honest I don’t believe you. If that’s true it shows utter arrogance because "four invitations" were extended. Which means you skip whole posts without even bothering to read them.

{Our email address- info@livexports.com}

You also said you didn’t receive emails on ‘two’ occasions sent to the private email address you gave me to send Pauline’s number.

Please do not patronize me. I know what I posted says and means.

If you really want to do Gods work I suggest you start to listen. That’s why he gave you ears.

I know that sounds rude even cheap but months of you ignoring us is beyond the pale.

Are you prepared to read our posts please and allow us to show how it works here or should I say doesn’t and why?

I understand your frustration but you’re making matters worse.

Its how it works in Australia we need to deal with.

I hear what you are saying to Foxy (Hi Foxy) and others but you’re not helping running around dragging world events here to Australia.

You must stop it and concentrate on here.

Show us your by listening and participating in “sensible exchange of dialog”

There are many comments that differ on this post and interesting nearly all are right in their own ways.

Foxy we need to have a counter plan in case all that love lets blown back in our faces.TBRO

Do not kid ourselves there will be no problems here which is why we need to have the right Muslim Leaders.

Be aware what going on in Australia while your all off so worried about the rest of the world.

Pale,
Vanilla started this thread by refering to a survey of muslims in 35 countries. As I see it the topic here is world wide. Some posters may have gone off topic but my post was on the topic.

I am quite happy to discuss the situation in Australia on its own and if you want to discuss that,I suggest you start a new thread.

Mr Boaz David,

How many times do all of us have to tell you "You are wrong and here is why?"

We've told you over and over again, in many threads and many posts, - that your continous statements (as TRTL has also pointed out) - that "Islam is evil," is wrong. You simply don't hear us.

I'm pleased that you took note of my biblical references. Beliefs and people go together. If you say one is "evil" the assumption is - so is the other.

However, I do not wish to continue to argue with you. As I've said in the past - it gets tedious and is pointless.

The only way that you will change my opinion of you is if you were to admit that most Muslims are moderate. Which is the theme of the current thread.

Banjo

-GY might not to allow that. Perhaps someone else might open one we will be happy to post on it.

Bozzie
Lesson One Christianity• =

When I was a kid, I used to pray every night for a new bike.
Then I realised, the Lord doesn't work that way.

So I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me ... and I got it!

Lesson Over that’s, all you need to know. Just stick with the rules ;)

Lesson Two about Muslim Faith. =

Not all Arabs are Muslims (many are Christians) and not all Muslims are Arabs (most Muslims are non-Arabs).

Muslims always have religion uppermost in their minds and ""make no division between secular religion and business.""

""It is to the business dealings we must cast our eyes.""

(If nothing Else Mohamed must have been a savvy business man.)

The word Islam did not originally mean “submission btw as many think. It referred to strength which characterized a desert warrior who even when faced with impossible odds, would fight.

However Islam is about business and in ""this day and age that’s trade.""

*Whom Australia is doing business with via trade is our real *concern- or should be.

David please wait- "Do not" turn this into an argument about the meaning of Islam

Foxy We shouldn’t tell David what to think. We can give everybody facts.

I think your ideals we do not have a problem with some rising extreme groups of Muslims is ‘quite wrong’.

We most certainly do. Putting our head in the sand and praying for a bike isn’t going to fix it as I demonstrated to Boaz above.

It would be irresponsible.

Knowledge and common sense are required and please don’t do what David has done= Dismiss the only people on olo or outside olo who have actually worked with Muslim Leaders in Australia.

This is what frustrated us with 'him'.

It may surprise some of how much I am going to agree with "SOME" of Davids comments “ from time to time”...