Penny said

Pale, in order for this strategy of yours to work, your Arab friends I suspect, have to be guaranteeing price.
Pale
Correct.
Penny
I suspect that farmers would not contemplate meeting them
Pale
In most cases we will never know. The System is designed to protect the industry of the Live trade from paddock to plate throughout the Farmers Federation MLA , Austrade AQIS Media Government Chamber of Commerce=
Everybody protects the live trade. You can’t promote co joint farms or share farms. You can’t get the same support to market your program. Not when Mark Vaile according to MLA personally organized ships loads of sheep from the Australian Government to the Kuwaiti Government can you promote co joint ventures.
Did you ever read his port folio? To promote the exports and encourage 'value adding' of goods from Australia and -introduce new ideas for the Australian public to overseas destinations etc
To answer your question-
Farmers are a different breed to city folks and have a language of their own.
The older ones old school book of laws which they do not like to break.
quick example.
Some time ago we drove a mob of cattle to feed because of doubt.
Not far down the road was another farmer [dairy] doing it tough but not as tough as his stock.
He had them hidden but not because he was ashamed they were starving just his pride that hurt.
We offered him to get them down with the others but- no way
They were good breeding stock- His life’s work with irreplaceable blood lines.
He had already called the Abattoir when we offered him three times the amount. No he gave his word and that was the end of the matter.

Farmers are manipulated.

didn’t see this coming. However the big World V Feed lot companies and others did.

Tell you what is nice however. When farmers meet Muslims on their own farm.
You see the pride gain in his stride as he knows he is really appreciated

problems disappear as you watch the beginning of new friendships.

Penny Nicky Dicky Foxy everybody.

Here is the Petition you requested we set up

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/petition-to-stop-live-animal-exports.html

Penny, as it happens, economics is one of my strengths.
Pale
Really- Yours or this Country?

Yabby sheep are trucked from all states to make up the quoto for the live trade= so so cruel.

yabby said

Our beloved meat exporters are so good at outdiscounting
one another in the marketplace, that buyers just sit back and smile.

Pale relies
shame= How could you be so shameful!

Yaby said

Not one sheep skin is processed in WA, everything is done in China. We
have no labour here.



. The AMIEU can’t supply any either, ask Rodger Fletcher,
who knows the situation here.

pale replies

The AMIUE have been toldto back off. If you dont know that you know litle

Yes good idea= lets ask Rodger what he thinks of live exports. A successful abattoir operator who provides many jobs= shall we?
http://www.abc.net.au/rural/nsw/stories/s1449302.htm

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:wf9oY4gO2L8J:nswfarmwriters.org/newsletters/Newsletter_February_2005.pdf+fletcher+meats+dubbo&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=au

Yabby said

. We don’t even have the labour to kill half the
animals processed here, let alone another 3 million.
Pale replies
Oh there there diddims poor baby- Don’t cry.Big mumma will save you.
3 million ah. Reckon we might just be able to offer young migrants and Sea Change Familes training and jobs.
We need new young farmers- or we wont have a food bowel. The really big bonus will be we wont have to train many the Koran to work in Halal Plants.

Yabby said
It is Islamic law that animals should be treated kindly. Have you tried to
use that to the advantage of the animals? Religion matters in the ME.
Pale replies

Thanks for the tip.

Yabby, what makes you think that I refer only to NSW? And you need to learn to spell Hassall (and Associates) if you want to critique the report. Have I thought about what would happen if the live trade shut down? Certainly. I can't wait.

Your "experts" in the Middle East include MLA Veterinarian Nigel Brown, who is on record in the Gulf Daily News saying that he doesn't see too much wrong with the way animals are handled. Let's be realistic. I asked you "how many experts", and you have quoted two. I just gave you one more. Not a lot, is it? And those people are there for one reason, and it has nothing to do with the "welfare" of animals, it is so that they can earn the big bucks with MLA, and have their photos taken looking like they're doing some good.

I reiterate, no other country can supply the numbers that Australia does. If Australia withdraws that supply on moral/welfare grounds, changes must occur. It will be an international diplomatic incident. PETA did attack the "haram" (religious) angle last year with various governments over there, and the result was - Animals Australia proved again that nothing - irrespective of religion, culture, decency, and any number of self-described "experts" had changed. These countries are all signatories to OIE (International Organization for Animal Health) welfare standards, and that means nothing either. International livestock expert Temple Grandin wrote a report on her findings with regard to animal handling and slaughter in the Middle East, and very damning it is, too.

The reason that claims are made about labour shortages is that people employed in that/those sectors had no option but to leave them, when the live exporters caused the shutdown of their workplaces - their industry, in fact. Simple labour market economics.

PALE argued earlier that government assistance/subsidies should be applied equally to the meat processing sector as they are to the live export trade (including the payroll tax, WCI, and like employment expenses, AQIS inspection fees). That seems pretty fair to me.

"Where I see the problem is that you guys have your fixed little views there, which are all black and white, based on your philosophies, which are banners on your websites. You lack people qualified in livestock, as distinct from pets. (Yabby)

"It is Islamic law that animals should be treated kindly. Have you tried to use that to the advantage of the animals? Religion matters in the ME." (Yabby)

"Fixed little views" eh? Well enjoy the video Yabby, you depraved little man!

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=save_the_sheep&Player=wm&speed=_med

Go, Penny and Dickie! Yabby, and your alter-ego Rojo are losing ground badly here. The mistakes you make are that you have absolutely no regard for cruelty, you believe that by patronising those who do, you are demonstrating superior intellect (you're not), and that we differentiate between species as you do.

Penny is absolutely right, cruelty is cruelty, irrespective of the species. She also has you beaten on the ethics vs economics arguments too. There is an article at www.liveexportshame.com by a WA journo, Paul Murray (from 2004, I think) in which he explains exactly why the sky will not fall in on WA of the live export trade were to end.

It is true to say that there would be no labour shortage in meat processing if the live export trade had not shut down slaughterhouses, forcing so many people (no doubt with encouragement from Centrelink) to seek other employment. At the time Murray wrote his article, the feds were subsidizing the live export trade by waiving AQIS inspection fees to the value of $400,000 annually, while CHARGING each meat processor, in WA alone, that amount annually. And because the ships are all foreign owned and crewed, there are no employment on-costs, as Penny has pointed out. Expecting a degree of parity does seem reasonable.

I hope you have watched the vision recommended by Dickie - but then, it probably won't bother you too much, because they're "only" sheep, cattle, goats, camels... and you can make a buck out of it, so the brutality really doesn't matter.

Are we livestock experts? Who knows? But we do know gross animal abuse when we see it, and you don't have to be too expert for that.
Nicky

So Penny, given that 80% of so of sheep exports come from WA, which regional
areas collapsed here? Why are all the meatworks screaming for workers and
can’t find any? Where are these people?

Penny, I purposefully leave the odd spelling mistake, because it shows up the
nature of my debating partners. Those who are pedantic about every word,
are usually also those who are unable to see the big picture, as they are too
bogged down with details. I’ve learnt a bit more about you , it all helps.

I know all about Nigel Brown, I don’t need to hear it from you. Stop fussing
over the trivial, start seeing the big picture. Or shall I remind you for the
rest of your life, that you said that Australian farmers should be in jail.

Yet I have shown you that hogtying sheep has good reasons, that cutting
sheeps throats is not black and white as you claim. You have been unable
to respond

How on earth do you expect Peta to do anything useful in the ME, if they
have the same arrogant attitude as you and George Bush have? Have you
never heard of people skills or a bit of smart psychology?

No other country needs to supply what Australia does, but the combination
of the continent of Africa, along with China, certainly can. I remind you
that China has more sheep then Australia. You are risking the livelihoods
of tens of thousands of farmers, based on your little dreams. But then
you clearly don’t care about those farmers.

The processing sector is in fact treated equally, it’s a long complex
argument that Pale does not understand. Whilst their heart is certainly
in the right place, as Pericles pointed out, at least they are consistent
in their irrationality, so I don’t bother to explain it.

Your response as to what would happen if the live trade was shut down,
shows me that you really don’t have the foggiest about this industry.
For the fact that animal suffering would massively increase, has clearly
never crossed your mind