Penny01: "I think that there is a large section of the farming community who probably should be in gaol"

Now there's an intelligent opinion from someone who claims to be a senior academic. No wonder anti-live exports activists are largely seen as radical airheads by primary producers.

Have you ever actually been on a farm?

Ooh Penny, its just as easy to judge your intelligence by your posts. Academic
qualifications tell us that you passed certain exams in limited fields. Some of
the brightest people on the planet are in fact drops outs, like Bill Gates and many
others.

I don’t pay too much attention to animal libber websites, with their melodramatic
language. We know what happened when the mulesing debate was on. Peta never
let the facts get in the way of a good story. A lot of these sites have a somewhat
“religious” fervour about them, promoting their ideology. I happen to disagree
with their philosophy. We are part of nature and one species has been eating the
other since forever and that will continue to happen. Even you will eventually
land up as part of the old food chain, that’s just how it is.

Now some will preach the evils of leather shoes, fishing, horse racing, etc.
You are free to believe every word, if that is your choice. As I happen to work
with animals every day, unlike them, I think that a lot of their claims are
frankly bollocks.

As to my dogs, they have a bean bag each, a spot on the couch, and doggie
door to come and go and would not know what a chain was if they fell
over it. But if I had to hogtie them, as it was in their best interests and
had to be done, then yes I would.

As PF has pointed out, farmers hogtie sheep for good reasons, perhaps
you are just not aware of them, as you seem to have no knowledge in
this field. Being herd animals, when carted anywhere alone, unless
they are pets, they freak out and tend to smash their heads into
things, doing themselves serious injury. Hogtying is indeed the kindest
option, but of course you seem to think farmers should be in jail.

As to slitting throats, the Jews have done a lot of work on this, claiming
it’s the kindest option. Just one reference.

http://www.shechitauk.org/downloads/A_Guide_to%20Shechita_July_2004.pdf

So its not black and white.

Now to your further points. So what if the Becrux had a bad trip? Do you think
that 747s never have bad trips? We learn from these experiences and improve
things. Siba ships have two spanking shiny new boats coming, but we’ve been
through all these discussions before on OLO. If it’s a ship, no matter how good it
really is, it must be evil. Bollocks to that. Its these black and white judgement
calls that I object to, when life is full of shades of grey.

Now to economics. It should occur even to you, that if growers obtain 50-60$
for shippers, compared to 20$ from meatworks, all that extra spending in their
regional areas, is of huge benefit. Fodder can be purchased, silos installed to
cope with droughts, etc. etc. That extra spending itself generates a lot more
jobs. We are constantly reminded that farms are businesses and should be run
in a business like manner. Fair enough, so that’s what farmers do.

*which sends its
profits to countries whose stated objective is to blow the western world into oblivion.*

Which profits do we send to which country that wants to blow us up?

What’s really happening is that the Arabs are simply buying those bits of the
West that they really want, with their huge petrodollar profits, which will only
rise as the price of oil rises. It’s not their fault that the West became addicted
to their oil. Perhaps the West is really not so smart after all.

Penny I have no problem if you want to preach your morals and philosophical beliefs.
I have a real problem if you want to make them compulsory.

I admit that I know very little about the export of live animals. But listening to the horror stories - I can't understand why the animals have to be mistreated. It sounds to me like greed is the driving force. Why can't our government set standards to which exporters have to comply?

Perhaps PALE together with other animal welfare organisations, could get together and talk to farmers, then present conditions that could be acceptable to all, that the government could support in the animal export trade?

This is only a question from someone, as I said who knows little about this subject.

The Rudd government may be prepared to listen, if offered solutions covering a wide spectrum of issues that included everyone in the business. Everyone should be concerned about cruelty to animals,
especially if it can be avoided - with people willing to give a little on all sides.

Yabby,

Flying , ships terrifies for poor Bs &$& ah. Want to hear about live exports by planes?

Crikey, No Aussie ships Yabbs Umm,our chilled will be.

Don’t start on Kosher, - you may have Dews +Muslims` actually agreeing on something.

Wouldn’t it be ironic if = Muslims used Dews for their pre stunning argument. Signed by which ever the dishonorable grub sings off on that one.

Anyway, getting myself in trouble[again]=

The farmers on this thread are correct. Read back you will see PF said-While riding my bike out checking my stock- bla bla.

A farmer “checking “ and “providing care for stock”.
Ok let’s say we were out in the middle of nowhere =say on our way for holidays from the Cold coast. We come across a sick sheep. Lost, no water etc

What would you suggest we do? = Drive off and leave it?
Let’s make it easy and say we are traveling in a Ute. I know-` Great` we can put him in the back and take him for treatment or to a vet. ~Good Idea. ~

Tell me how we are going to get him to just stand there - all quite like, so he doesn’t hurt himself, jumping off at 80K?

We joined OLO in an attempt to get like minded people who care about Animals listening to farmer’s point of view as well as some ill informed web sites

If you continue to only take information from one source you will be laughed at by Government not to mention farmers with their wonderful dry sense of humor.


Instead think=How can I open abattoirs to save these poor creatures from long cruel trips prior to slaughter?

How can I offer the Farmer a better deal in the market?

How Can I take over the Industry?

“Listen to the farmer` problems re the prices they receive- live Verses local.

Free Range Verses-Intensive, Give them a new `viable` alternative.

Work on that- with farmers not against them

Old Proverb

Small I may be- But am I much

Terrible may I be- But am I good .

"Why can't our government set standards to which exporters have to comply?"

Foxy, There are minimum Australian Live Export Standards. However, as shabby as they are, this industry continues to breach this Act, seemingly without fear of prosecution.

Diseased animals continue to be loaded onto ships, causing rampant infectious outbreaks and mortalities. How do these animals pass inspection prior to loading?

Animals have languished on ships in dock for a week causing mortalities - a breach of the Act since ships must leave port within 72 hours of loading.

Many other breaches are common - prosecutions are few!

Do not believe this industry when they claim there are only a few protestors.

The majority of Australians object to this disgraceful industry.

Your suggestions have merit, however, despite the reams of evidence, farmers, exporters and governments continue to deny that animal cruelty exists.

This is merely another obstacle to overcome.

Remember we are dealing with an industry and a government who wilfully perjure themselves on a regular basis.

We shall remain alert, Foxy - it's simply a matter of time.