pale,

"Yabb` little Shadow" - I'll presume this is an attempt at an insult. I have so far refrained from insulting because it does not further an argument. If you wish to engage in trading insults then say the word, and I shall begin.
If you did mean it literally, then I agree, I don't know anywhere near as much as Yabby about live-exports, nor WA.

Sorry, re: Hassall discredit, I was refering to either Nicky or Penny, as I wasn't sure which, who then go on to include ancilliary employment in their number of 40 000. Which by the way I'm still waiting to see from a credible source. In fact any other source.

"Rojo says
Not everything has to be a conspiracy.
Pale replies
That’s what I keep telling your lot= funny"

rojo now says- actions speak louder than words. But what exactly is my lot.

"Really= always interested of course = Perhaps you could act as an agent and pick half K."

What is half K? $500 or do you mean half commision? The ones I'm thinking of are in Gunnedah and Moree, go for your life. Think of it as my donation to ending live-exports. Fairly.

"I am terribly sorry I missed that one. Be a darling and re post it for me please"
Since you asked so nicely, from page 3 http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/health/3548.html

Please do me the decency of quoting my comments without editing out the middle.
"Penny makes an interesting point - that no matter how good the conditions are on board the ships it won't make any difference to she and others who have the same mindset. Because of the "atrocities" at the other end."

Is very different to your edit-"interesting point - that no matter how good the conditions on board the ships Because of the "atrocities" at the other end"

Please do not do so again. I do not mind if you only quote pieces, but don't join them together, out of context.

In regard to the serious shortage of meatworkers I have to say that Yabby is correct.

We have one of the largest abs in the state just up the road from us. They have been advertising for workers nation wide for months now to no avail. They claim that if they cannot expand and get the staff they will not remain viable and will close. Nothing at all to do with live exports. At present, people have to wait for weeks to get a 'kill'.

“The reason that claims are made about labour shortages is that people employed in that/those sectors had no option but to leave them when the live exporters caused the shutdown of their workplaces ” that statement is just no true Penny.

Our town will now be invaded by non english speaking vietnamese and Philippino’s that will send all their money back home after their stint here. (that’s if they all actually go home) How is that going to preserve jobs for australians? How is that going to benefit our economy?

http://inverell.yourguide.com.au/articles/1150082.html?src=search

Hi all
Firstly, welcome back, PF. The company Hyfarm contacted me, and told me there is a booming market for pigs exported live to the Philippines and China (and we know the records those countries have with animals). Those unfortunate enough to be sent to the Philippines are transported on cattle ships, those to China are sent by air. They claim to be breeding pigs suited to tropical climates.

The pigs are for breeding purposes, and go straight into intensive operations in those countries. The man who contacted me said that it was understood that "some people might have welfare issues with that".

As I understand it, to those people disputing the meat industry job losses - and I think it has been said on several occasions - those figures are direct from the AMIEU and the ABS. But people with their own agendas (Yabby and Rojo) would not believe them if they came from the almighty.

Schechita (kosher) slaughter is no different from any other ritual slaughter; a fully conscious terrified animal is left to choke on its own blood for however long that takes. Longer for cattle than for sheep, according to all references I have read. Therefore, any moves by Australia to allow it to occur would be a retrograde step.

As for sheep having their throats cut in Australia - for whatever reason - without stunning, all the Codes of Practice for the states abd territories provide for the "humane destruction" of animals (in the event of illness etc) - using bullets. But I guess a knife is cheaper, isn't it? And you can use its LOTS of times. I'm with Penny. It doesn;t matter whether it is a sheep, a cow, a pig, or a chicken. The CoPs are slack enough without you people compromising them even further, just because you can get away with it.
Nicky

"Our town will now be invaded by non english speaking vietnamese and Philippino’s that will send all their money back home after their stint here. (that’s if they all actually go home) How is that going to preserve jobs for australians? How is that going to benefit our economy?" PF

Come on PF. The overseas workers have a good record of attendance and a strong work ethic.

They have to pay tax and their own health insurance, but are covered by worker’s compensation for accidents on the job.

Social welfare programs, like unemployment benefits and pensions, are not available to 457 visa holders.

And if these workers are unsatisfactory, they're dispatched back home immediately.

I have a builder friend who now employs three temporary workers. He is so impressed with their work ethics, he has bought a house to accommodate them.

The economic boom is forecast to continue for at least ten years. That's of course if we have temporary workers and that beats permanently increasing our population.

But of course with the depletion of sheep in this country, the sociopathic live exporters don't want any competition, do they? Nor do they want to risk any potential reform of the industry. Indeed not. They prefer to have the barbarians slaughter our animals off-shore and deprive the Australian economy of valuable funds.

Speaking of barbarians (not the home-grown ones) it appears that they are practising their heinous religious activities in this country. In addition, Minister McGauran has exempted these people from stunning animals prior to slaughter.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/sheep-killed-whileawake/2007/09/18/1189881513965.html

Does the status quo remain in place with the incumbent government?

And is there no end to this industry's atrocities against their livestock?

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/09/26/1190486394030.html

Nicky, for once scratch that brain for a minute. The sheep flock has halved since
the early 90s, due to lack of profitability etc, from 170 million to 85 million.
Sheep income comes from both wool and meat. That means half the kill of sheep
in Australian meatworks. If the goose that lays the golden eggs is plucked too hard
it dies, as the unions have found out the hard way.

So we have 25-30 million sheep a year less to kill in Australia, due to the flock
shrinking. The live trade have operated at 4-6 million for 30 years or so.
Where did the job losses come from?

As to Sheckita, are you qualified in neuroscience or vetinary science?
Did you check the scientific opinions mentioned in the document?

Have you heard of phantom limbs causing pain? Have you heard of people
losing limbs and not even being aware of it, until they looked down and
checked?

Neuroscientists tell us that volume controls or gate controls modulate
feelings of pain in certain circumstances, that’s why things like acupuncture
can actually work, as they do.

The muslims have made their own claims, when it comes to scientific
studies:

http://www.halaljournal.com/artman/publish/article_165.shtml

Its time these things were investigated scientifically and the truth
established scientifically, not just claims by housewives with dogs :)

*the sociopathic live exporters don't want
any competition, do they?*

Farmers want competition Dickie and that’s what matters! The more
competition the better. Fact is that the live trade at least keeps our
local processors a little bit honest on some grades of livestock, there
is nobody else.

WA has exactly one single, large, efficient mutton processor. He calls
the shots, where is the competition? No wonder our dismal local
mutton prices, are well below Eastern States prices. Processors have made
it clear that they are not a charity, they will buy livestock as cheaply
as possible.

So farmers respond by baling out of sheep. This year some are not even
going to bother mating their merino ewes, many are selling flocks and
switching to other things, the goose keeps shrinking.

Yabby, you defeat your own argument. If live exports have remained static at 4-6 million, clearly there are less animals available for slaughter in Australia. That is why you have a monopoly situation in WA, the live exporters have driven the rest out of business.

PF, migrant workers may send some of their money home. But as Dickie rightly points out, there are things that they MUST pay for/contribute to whilst working in this country. In addition to the points that Dickie made, they have to eat, use transport/buy cars and fuel, pay taxes and various other lifestyle expenses. Conversely, the ships upon which the unfortunate animals are loaded are, without exception, foreign owned. I have found five references so far of crews from these ships "jumping ship" (from the Al Kuwait, Al Shuwaikh, Al Messilah, and the Danny F II, on multiple occasions) which suggests that conditions for the animals on these monstrosities are simply abysmal.

Yabby, get real. Neuroscience notwithstanding, if I cut your keg off while you are conscious, you are going to feel it a hell of a lot more than if I cut it off while you are unconscious (I'm putting it simple terms so that you can understand). Likewise, if you are bleeding to death, especially if you add terror, and choking on your own blood to the equation. You should read some of Temple Grandin's work. She is a US agriculture (livestock) professor who provides advice on handling, and specifically slaughter, around the world.

The practice of pre-stunning was brought in for a reason. And since the barbarians (as Dickie so aptly describes them) accept hundrds of thousands of tonnes of meat from Australia (and NZ) from animals who HAVE been stunned there is absolutely no excuse for not doing so. Thankfully, McGauran is a man of the past.

BTW, how does a)being a housewide (I'm not but I know some extremely qualified and intelligent ones) and b)having dog/s render one incapable of intellligent thought? I thought you said earlier that you have dog/s - has that compromised your intellectual capacities?
Nicky