Poor Yabby, you just don't get it, do you? You can load these animals onto the Queen Mary, and it would not improve the atrocities they face in importing countries. Dickie's observations are correct; Ive seen ill,injured animals being taken to wharves. Furthermore you should read the mortality reports that Animals Australia got. Those reports are prepared by AQIS.

Start with the "Maysora" - cattle were loaded on that voyage in direct violation of the Australian Standards for the Export of Livestock. Southern bred cattle (south of the 26 parallel south) are not to be loaded between May and October. Those were southern cattle loaded in Portland, and they died appalling deaths, of septicaemia from having to lie in their own excrement with open wounds from the slippery decks, and pneumonia.

Go on to the Tasmanian one, the "Al Messilah" - countless sheep were ill when they were delivered to the feedlot. Up to 50% of those sheep were only in the feedlot for a matter of hours.

ALL the reports suggest that the animals were not given the "mandated" period in feedlots, too. Do we hear of a prosecution? Sanctions? Well, they have to carry more antibiotics, and observe mandated periods in feedlots.

The ALES are as worthless as the MOUs the Howard government signed with these savages in the Middle East. All they provide for is the animals being unloaded, apart from that even more worthless one with Egypt.

PF, I take your point, but I am still fascinated by what is cruel to a dog, but is not cruel to a sheep (or a cow, goat, pig, or chicken).

Who said that if death rates in paddocks are that high, you can't be so good at what you do? Perhaps it just doesn't matter. As a matter of interest, what do they die of? Starvation? Dehydration? Flystrike?

The AMIEU will confirm details of the job losses - they reckon that for every meat worker's job lost, four indirect jobs are lost (downstream processing, and businesses which relied on meatworks in regional areas)

Dear Dickie,

What can a person like myself, do to help?

Foxy.

These will give you a fair idea of the background.

http://www.hrnicholls.com.au/nicholls/nichvol6/vol67the.htm

http://qld.amieu.asn.au/pages.php?recid=232&hl=tory

http://wa.amieu.asn.au/pages.php?recid=52

http://wa.amieu.asn.au/

We have overwhelming established the indefensible trade is too cruel for words.
That said I would like to move on to work on the solution not argue the problem Foxy.
I don’t see the point of going on like a broken record- We need to actually do something to change it now.

You said
Perhaps PALE together with other animal welfare organizations, could get together and talk to farmers, then present conditions that could be acceptable to all that the government could support in the animal export trade?

Pale Replies.
Yes that would be wonderful. We have requested that until we are blue in the face. However sadly the others have instead black listed us.Umm we are apparently called the Animal killers.

Later we can explore ideas as to why they possible may have taken that position.


As you read above they claim we are just after a quick buck from the meat trade by setting up Halal Abattoirs.

. Let me assure you the meat trade would be the last to give anybody a fast buck it’s the most difficult unforgiving.
To make matters worse we are going to be as short of farmers as we have been rain as the youth leave the bush.
What is required is a Dick Smith Harvey Norman type to lobby a very wise P M to a total review of regional and country areas.

We need tecks or training programs provided to teach crop farming and free range farming to migrants and aboriginal people, regional folk and tree change people.

Also we need proper Animal Welfare laws. Another arm of Inspectors.

organize more inspectors.

I am angry about the way the Government have dismissed this brave x police officer who disclosed barbaric treatment in live exports.

The other thing we need here on OLO if we are serious is for people to stick on the thread as we work out strategies and for that matter one ID

One suggestion is that we could start lobbying our State AMIEU representatives. The unions will be thinking the government OWES them for helping them get elected. Also, campaign Greens MPs, House of Representatives AND Senate. Dickie, you're in a pretty good spot in WA - Rachel Siewert is very anti live exports (WA in fact HAS appointed a new government Inspectorate for animal welfare - six General Inspectors, I heard, a lack of confidence in the RSPCA there).

Also, we have tended to rely a little on the Heilbron/Larkins Report and the report by the WA Meat Processing Industry Taskforce (Lindner) report. Those are getting a little bit old. A new report assessing the value/otherwise of the trade by a credible economist would be good. The Hassall Reports are easily discredited.

The trouble with "celebrities" is that they can get a bit temperamental. Science and economics seem to be the only way through this since the morals aspect has no impact.

Foxy, welcome back, I am so glad you didn't leave us.

The 40000 figure has been bandied around, I'd just like to see where it came from. Someone discredited the Hassal report for factoring in "related" jobs, but served this figure up as a given.

Pale, I've previously posted my sources, re: losses. Not my problem if you can't accept figures from a non-liveexport related field. Not everything has to be a conspiracy.

The premium price is only on the exported animals, which constitute only a fraction of total animals available. I'm happy for as many new Aust. abattoirs to open as possible, but buying price does not appear to be the stumbling block. Nor the less opportunity for processed meats from Australia to the ME(although I've read these have increased). Other factors must be. OH&S and insurance costs in what is a dangerous occupation, are most talked about.
I can't for the life of me understand how you can say these farmers are being ripped off by big export middlemen, when the alternative is to receive less. Really it's a no-brainer.


You have spoken about 457 visa workers in the past, doesn't this imply no-one local is looking for such work, and where do you think money paid to such tempoary residents will go? Not much into local communities, their aim will be to send as much as possible back home.

Out of interest several towns in my region once upon a time had an abattoir, now there are only derelict buildings. We are nowhere near anyone who live-exports, and have no such market. Ending live-exports won't reopen them.

Penny makes an interesting point - that no matter how good the conditions are on board the ships it won't make any difference to she and others who have the same mindset. Because of the "atrocities" at the other end. Yet the thought process is to ban exports, but not to actually improve conditions for ALL animals slaughtered over there. It's OK if they're not Australian? Very narrow-minded, should you feel the need to ask me.

Oh Penny, I get it very clearly indeed! The sheep could go on the Queen Mary,
exporters could comply with every little detail of the standards, you and others
would still have an agenda to shut down the trade. Is it not your ideology that
we should not be eating livestock, that we should treat them as pets etc?

Half the problem is in fact because you don’t know much about livestock, their
diseases and their behaviour. I am sure that some companies do the wrong thing
at times and so do some humans. Name me a field of human endeavour where that
is not the case?

One of the reasons I sold some sheep to the live trade this year, was to find out what
standards they would apply to me, a grower. It pays to speak from experience.
I can assure you that the fellow who checked my livestock, what could and could
not be sent, was extremely pedantic! But if you or Dickie knew much about diseases
like pinkeye, an animal can be carrying the disease but show no visual symptoms.

Now I’m not claiming that all companies are as professional as the one that I
dealt with, but even if they were, your agenda would still be to shut down the
trade. These companies are also fully aware and quite paranoid that every little
thing they do is being watched and could be filmed by people with a clear agenda,
no matter how great a job that they do.

Did AA go and film the great work that Peter Dundon and his wife are doing
on behalf of farmers, to improve welfare standards in the ME? Or do they
just focus on tragedy, as that suits their agenda? Sharon is an animal
welfare specialist by the way, so would know far more about this topic
then most academics or other armchair critics.

Atrocities happen everywhere. I could sneak around with my video camera
and peer into peoples homes, filming spouses being bashed, if my
agenda was to ban marriage. The gory details on TV-would–tear-at-heartstrings.