Thanks for your clarification Leo. But I am still having difficulty understanding you.

Well dee,

I trust Leo will now see an apology from you. Not only is he not anti-Semitic, but he is Jewish and opposes Zionism. Perhaps you should do some research on Zionism and Israel or just history in general. You might actually find out why some Palestinians, and Muslims in general, are so angry. Not that anything excuses terrorism, but there are definite political, social and economic reasons for any phenomenon, including Islamic extremism.

Perhaps you should also apologise to the rest of the posters on this thread who you accused and attacked for failing to weigh into your uninformed attack against someone you know nothing about.

Perhaps there is a lesson for you in this about jumping to conclusions and making assumptions about others based on the products of your own narrow intellectual ability.

Perhaps before shooting your mouth off next time you should learn from another famous xenophobic simpleton and ask first “please explain”.

If you read the propaganda put foward by Muslims in Australia you would think the only persons suffering terror are those in Southern Lebanon.

Could I mention on the first day of the conflict Hizb'Allah fired 600 rockets into Northern Israel. Thousands of families are hiding in terror in bunkers. It is not just the Lebanese who are suffering, Israel has suffered long at the fanaticism of Hizb'Allah who believe it is the mission of Allah to wipe Israel off the face of the planet.

If you listen to talk back radio the only voices heard are the voices of dual citizen Lebanese who are terrified for their relatives in the war zone controlled by Hizb'Allah. I can say that Israel will not stop until Hizb'Allah are disarmed as the UN have ruled. All threat to Israel's security must be disarmed before they will negotiate with such a religion.

Leo Braun - please accept my profound apology for mistaking you for an ordinary anti-Semitic racist when you are in fact an anti-Semitic Jew. Or should that be 'anti-Zionist' Jew.

I realise that some Jews are anti-Israel and disagree with many actions of the Isareli government, but the language you use goes far beyond simple disagreement. Whether or not you intend it, your posts sound as if they are written by someone with a pathological hatred of Jews. Do you hate Zionism or do you hate everyone who believes in it - which would obviously be every Jew living in Israel and the majority of Jews living in other countries?

See? I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong - so anyone who feels 'offended' by my objection to cut and paste anti-Semitic diatribes and very offensive racial slurs (no matter who wrote them) - consider yourself apologised to.

When I am proven wrong about the negative effects of Islamic immigration, perhaps I will receive an apology also.

Tao - is a comparison to Pauline the worst insult you can think of? Sad. Although I dont agree with Pauline, at least she had the courage to stand up and voice her opinions in the face of some very determined efforts to deny her the right of free speech. BTW didnt anyone ever tell you that personal insults are verboten in a genuine debate? I will not be offended if you stick to your promise not to respond to my posts.

As a result of posting when I should have previewed, some of my post didn’t make it –

‘When I am proven wrong about the negative effects of Islamic immigration, perhaps I will receive an apology also’

Of course, this should have read:

‘When I am proven RIGHT about the negative effects of Islamic immigration, perhaps I will receive an apology also’

To continue:

Tao – If you wish to throw around phrases like ‘narrow intellectual ability’ I suggest you read your own posts. You have not addressed one single point – no response to the facts on Islamic immigration in Europe, no answer for why so many Muslims are impossible to integrate into Western society, no response to the presence of terrorist cells and their supporters in every major Western and Asian country, including Australia – your stock answer is ‘Its only a minority’.

Islamic leaders tell us every day that their agenda is to force their religion onto western countries, there are literally hundreds of quotes – I find it very strange that people (such as yourself) choose not to believe them.

‘Its only a minority’ has been your sole contribution to the discussion – plus name-calling. You have not managed to disprove one single thing I have stated, you have simply dodged the questions. ‘Narrow intellectual ability’? A classic case of projection maybe.

BTW – ‘xenophobia’ means ‘hatred of foreigners’ so this term is misapplied. Like Pauline, you do not understand the meaning of the word.

dee,

I have not dodged any issues, I just don’t have a one-sided, blinkered view as you do. I am also suspicious of the hype generated by the media, and the “facts” fed to us by the government and other vested interests.

As you are so concerned about genuine debate, let us begin:

“You~have~not~addressed~one~single~point~–~no~response~to~the~facts~on~Islamic~immigration~in~Europe,”

Which “facts” are you talking about? Where do you get your “facts” on Islamic immigration in Europe? Why should I respond when you don’t cite your sources? Not that I must necessarily dispute your “facts”, perhaps just the conclusions you draw from them.

“No~answer~for~why~so~many~Muslims~are~impossible~to~integrate~into~Western~society”

How do you define “impossible to integrate”? What do you mean by “so many”? Even if your sweeping statement were “true”, aren’t there many more Muslims who have no trouble integrating?

“no~response~to~the~presence~of~terrorist~cells~and~their~supporters~in~every~major~Western~and~Asian~country,~including~Australia”.

Again, which terrorist cells are you talking about? What evidence do you have aside from biased news reporting? Much of the relevant “evidence” in Australian Courts is restricted from even the alleged suspects for “national security” reasons.

“You~have~chosen~to~ignore~relevent~points~such~as~the~situation~resulting~from~Muslim~immigration~in~Europe~-~debating~with~an~ostrich~is~a~waste~of~time.”

I do not ignore the “situation resulting from Muslim immigration in Europe” - I am well aware of it (although not as obsessed by it as you) – I just don’t think it is a reason to discriminate against and persecute a whole group – as I have previously stated.

I am also aware of (all though by no means an expert on) the situations WHICH RESULT IN Muslim immigration and, let us not forget, Muslim refugees. I am also aware that there must be many factors (which I have no experience of) which contribute to someone going so far as to strap explosives to their body and blow themselves to smithereens taking others with them. You choose to ignore these factors.

to be continued

continued from above

At~the~risk~of~repetition,~go~to~Europe~and~see~for~yourself~the~disaster~brought~about~by~Muslim~immigration.”

Well, I’ve just come back from Europe and it doesn’t seem too “disastrous” to me. Just as it doesn’t seem too “disastrous” here. I suppose your unsubstantiated use of the emotive “disastrous” is a valid part of “genuine debate”.

“You~might~also~consider~the~fact~that~there~is~violence~everywhere~that~Muslims~live~-~almost~every~country~in~the~world~is~now~threatened~by~the~actions~of~Islamic~extremists.”

You, dee, might consider that everywhere the Western Christian white man goes on his imperialist crusades he uses violence to oppress the indigenous populations in order to exploit natural and human resources, the Middle East included. How many people in the world have been threatened, and in fact colonised by, Western Imperialsim? Perhaps you should consider the “disastrous” consequences of such actions on the indigenous population of this country. But these sorts of things are facts you conveniently dismiss in your “genuine debate”.

“These~people~have~been~given~the~chance~of~a~new~life~in~Australia~-~a~country~that~has~never~imposed~'wrongs'~on~Arabs~-~yet~they~still~carp~and~whine.”

How about an illegal “pre-emptive” strike on Iraq, the results of which have been “disastrous” ? No doubt you were, and are, fully behind the coalition of the willing’s violent and destructive invasion and occupation of a country, having swallowed the propaganda holus bolus. However, there are is large section of the Arab community, and indeed the Western community, who do not agree with you. Of course, no doubt you’ll just dismiss such objections because such “facts” are inconvenient to your “genuine debate”.

“Islamic leaders tell us every day that their agenda is to force their religion onto western countries, there are literally hundreds of quotes – I find it very strange that people (such as yourself) choose not to believe them.”

I’m sure they believe what they are saying, as do you. The point is, are they in a position to carry it out? I seriously doubt it. More concerning is the actions of the most powerful military machine in the world, which I might add, is the only nation to have used a nuclear weapon – on civilians no less, and its allies.

And BTW dee, the Collins English Dictionary’s definition of xenophobia is “hatred or fear of foreigners or strangers or of their politics or culture”. If the shoe fits……