< why are you so offended?>

I am offended because I don’t like ingrates, whatever their religion. Muslims were given the chance of a new life in Australia, yet too many wish to force their beliefs and way of life onto us. Perhaps these particular Muslims would be happier living under sharia law in one of the paradises their parents couldn’t wait to leave.

< have every right to express themselves>

And I have every right to voice my opposition to the 'ignorant bile' spewed by some Muslims.

<the percentage of “extremist” Muslims within the Australian Muslim population>

I doubt that many Muslims would admit to the 'extremist' description – but perhaps they could explain why literature expressing hate for Australia and the West is on sale in Islamic bookshops in Sydney. Perhaps they could explain why extremist clerics are invited to ‘preach’ jihad in mosques in Australia. If the number of Muslims who support terrorism is only 5% of the world population, we have a big problem. Judging by the number of Muslims on trial in almost every major city in the West for planning terrorist attacks against their host countries, Islamic extremists number far more than ‘a few’. Or were they all framed by those Western Fascist governments that terrify you so much?

Some never see the barbarians at the gates. I can only suggest that you visit Europe and ask the average European what he/she thinks about large scale Islamic immigration. European governments are reducing the entry of Muslims into their countries for very good reasons – soaring crime, rape (two thirds of rapes in Norway are committed by Muslim immigrants), hate crimes (like the threats against the Danish cartoonists and the murder of Theo van Gogh), extremists (who are only a fraction according to you) threatening anyone who raises a voice against them – like the charmer holding up the 'Behead anyone who disrespects Islam' banner in London. Guess that comes under 'free speech'.

Strange isnt it, that the West didnt have these problems before the arrival of millions of Islamic 'refugees' and immigrants.

Dear, Dear, dee,

Did I ever say you didn’t have the right to express yourself? Although I now wish I had not commented on your hysterical opinions – it just gave you more opportunity to regurgitate your hateful ideas – yes hateful. At least Islamists have the decency to contain their rantings to their own sites. We have to put up with the likes of you, and the bible bashers, on this forum. Which is why this will be my last post regarding your uninformed nonsense.

You wrote “Strange isnt it, that the West didn’t have these problems before the arrival of millions of Islamic 'refugees' and immigrants.”

Which problems are you talking about? Terrorism? Haven’t you ever heard of the IRA?

Bombings? Haven’t you ever heard of Russell Street in Melbourne, or the Oklahoma City bombing?

Hateful propoganda? You can probably get Hitler's propoganda somewhere on the internet.

Is it only Islamic refugees and immigrants that engage in terrorism? I suggest you do some research on “Irgun Zvai Leumi (National Military Organisation)” and “Fighters for Freedom of Israel”. Check out the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946.

Get a grip dee, and some perspective.

Irfan, good article. I have a different perspective on Iraq but appreciate what you have to say.

coach makes the following comment early in the list of posts "Let's be clear here that it was Islam that started the war on the US. Does 9/11 still rind a bell?"

A point worth addressing. Something coach will not understand but others might get is that 9/11 was a step in a conflict that was already going on not the opening salvo. Numerous US owned targets had been attacked in the years and months leading up to that and I've seen reports of a failed rocket attack against Bin Ladden during Clinton's presidency. I'm sure many muslims could cite a litany of earlier incidents initiated by the US which they believe lead to 9/11. Attempts to simplify it down to 9/11 do not do the issue justice. Rather it is more like a hillbilly feud in which the incidents which started it are lost in history.

Who keeps it going? The extremists on both sides who believe that their own position will be strengthened by ongoing conflict.

- Muslim extremists who want to see an Islamic world (or at least the destruction of a number of special enemies).
- Christain extremists who don't like competition and who hope to leverage additional control over how others live by the introduction of more intrusive laws.

Add in some people who have believed the propaganda of the above two groups and have taken up the struggle because they think that it is necessary and all the other sides fault.

coach the above was not addressed to you - you appear to be so stuck in your muslim conspiracy theory that it would just be a waste of keystrokes to try and get you thinking about bigger issues.

R0bert

By the way dee, here is a list of terrorist organisations (including various religious terrorist groups): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_groups - but of course you “dont see hate sites belonging to Christians, Buddhists or Jews, have you ever asked yourself why Muslim hate-mongers exist in such large numbers?” Perhaps you’re not looking in the right place – too interested in promoting your own hate-mongering bias.

Yes, there are even Christian ones. Yes, in Western Countries. I thought this quote was interesting from the Army of God’s (a Christian anti-abortion Group) “Second Defensive Action Statement”:

• We the undersigned, declare the justice of taking all godly action necessary, including the use of force, to defend innocent human life (born and unborn). We proclaim that whatever force is legitimate to defend the life of a born child is legitimate to defend the life of an unborn child.
• We declare and affirm that if in fact Paul Hill did kill or wound abortionist John Britton, and accomplices James Barrett and Mrs. Barrett, his actions are morally justified if they were necessary for the purpose of defending innocent human life. Under these conditions, Paul Hill should be acquitted of all charges against him.

Apparently Christian anti-abortionists think nothing of murdering or bombing people, or hate-mongering. A bit of a concern considering the numbers of Christians in the world - and of course we should judge them all by their “extremist” elements. Perhaps we should stop them immigrating, and better still, expel existing Christians from the country.

Of course you ought not to forget the Ku Klux Klan – in fact you might even consider joining it, I dare say it would suit you. In fact while talking about extremists taking over and large numbers, in 1924 the KKK had a membership of 6 million people, and in some regions as high as 40%. Apparently the "West" had problems after all.

I rest my case.

This really is my last post on your anti-Islamic rantings.

It is evident from this thread that for public safety and social cohesion that two extreme positions cannot coexist. They both propogate lies and create mischief. One is the enemy of the other and will breed actions that result in civil violence. Therefore it is important that extremists of the minority group be removed from the society. They could be deported to the a country whose sympathy they have. Wars will always be the nature of extremists; so in Australian society because of the current views of sections of the Muslim community they must be incarsarated or deported. Two opposing extremist positions cannot coexist and retain social cohesion.

One problem philo - how would anyone differentiate let alone determine who or what constitute extremisism in that minority group.

Would you also get rid of the extremists sympathisers ?

What about those who would lie and swear allegiance to Australia when in fact they don’t have the slightest interest ?

What about those who are financing the extremists ?

Those who are educating them ?

Those who abide to the same barbaric teaching and find no real problem with it ?

Those who when pushed a little would gladly jump the fence and pick up arms ?

I say to put a stop to it all, it is imperative to deal with the problem head on. Open a public inquiry and scrutinize the core teachings and political agenda of that particular minority group.

We have dealt with previous political threats in our brief history. Let’s not dismiss this threat as a small hot headed fringe group of extremists. The ideologies that unite them spell disaster for the rest of the free world.