Thanks for all the responses, PF and People Against Live Exports. To the latter, it is a pity that you cannot provide the information we've asked for (a bit like all the government's "commercial in confidence" stuff! No-one can tell you what or why).

PF, do I understand that you are a free-range pig farmer? If so, sincere cogratulations. I have just written major supermarkets to tell them that I have asked at several of their supermarkets in my area about free-range ham/pork products, and the staff were simply dumbfounded by the question. They had absolutely no idea. How do they train these people? One tried to tell me that "they support local produders who comform to the Code of Practice", so I had to disabuse them if any notion that the CoP protected the pigs from gross abuse. The people selling this stuff are so totally clueless.

I know about the so-called restrictions that the RSPCA operates under, but my experience is that they stay away from intensive farming operations. When they have been asked to intervene there, they have steadfastly refused to do so. Other animal groups have had to publicize what goes on behind closed doors, and the RSPCA in NSW has its deal with Pace Farms, and the State Council in South Australia is loaded with pig farmers, and that says it all. There are two live export farmers on the State Council in WA.

I think starting a thread solely about live exports is an excellent idea, and I meant to suggest it last night and forgot. That way this forum could be dedicated to what it was meant to be, and another cruelty issue could be addressed. I'll happily contribute to that one too (how do you start them?). Other contributors seem to have 'dropped off' since we digressed from the topic, which is a pity.
Nicky.

Nicky?

21st May You received post from a :Pig Farmer. You ignored it and rubbished RSPCA instead.

You ceased posting ‘without replying’” 24th May

No posts between May and only one-11th September. Nothing at all until -

I posted first time 27th October-. There goes your theory I chased everybody away.

I have pointed out to you’” twice now” you should discuss Pigs.

PF posted on 2nd November an invaluable post and you ignored that too!.


In preference of take a swipe at PALE.



It would seem you have been caught out.

PF said in the car park your group had changed their policy on supporting Free Range Farmers”. Is that true?

If so when do we see a Media Release? I am confused this was sent- Remembering these people went on National Television claiming they were main Stream..” Good People being misled by your extreme lot!”

[copy] Letter from Voiceless

11th April 2006

I have a letter from Voiceless that reads as follows- Just to clarify; Voiceless has a “policy” not to endorse any meat Industry- Including Free Range and or abattoirs.

Animals Australia , Animal liberation have the same policy. Also the extremly strange friend that funds your lot Ingrid PETA .

Why don’t you stop telling PF and the public, Porkies. Tell her the truth that you ‘oppose!’ them ‘ not support.’

Or Change the policy publicly from Vegetarian to Main Stream.

. Do you even know the numbers of Free Range Pig Farmers there are?

Bugger all.

Woolworth ,Coles are into Petrol, Grog, Fruit, Meat. Get them! Involved in “ converting the intensive” and buying into more Free Range Farms?

Shame them into committing. Shouldn’t be hard.

Do a deal with ALDI or someone and spend the public’s money on” co- jointly advertising that fact to the Australian public’

How presumptuous asking me! privileged information. I told you that’s Wendy’s work.

"Can" answer two questions for you. Yes its in “confidence Government and business”, and ‘others’ -yes there are people who would do that for nothing-

Wendy- every cent is to go back into Animal Welfare

PF, sorry for the late reply. I value your post of November 2nd- thanks for that useful info.

Nicky, you are right to say that people are not informed enough about intensive farming.
People really do expect that the Australian Code of Practice is fair.
Indeed, I too, have found that the supermarket staff including managers have no idea how cruel the intensive pig farming industry 'really' is.
There seems to be the attitude of many people that 'it can't be all that bad or the govt wouldn't allow it.'

Thanks for those links as well, PALE.
From one of the links:
"For the next 10 years, breeding female pigs will be permitted to be kept in the 'stalls' which measure just 0.6 metres x 2.0 metres during their entire 16 week pregnancy – and after 2017 still can be confined for 6 weeks of each pregnancy."

How big are the 'stalls' for non-breeding pigs permitted to be, I wonder?

I am just happy to AA and Voiceless support, no need to worry about PETA.

Nicky – yes I am a free range pig farmer, and proud of what I do. Yes, most people are unaware of how pigs are raised in this country. Once they have that knowledge I hope things will change dramatically

Inquiries here have certainly picked up in the past week. This is from one I have just received and I get a lot like it:

“ I live in Moorabbin in Melbourne. I saw the ads for SaveBabe.com along the train line the other day and had no idea really about
what they go through. From now on I will only buy it if I can get it from a farm such as yours.

Good on you for doing the right thing and putting quality 1st.”


I have always said that thanks to movies like Babe, people have a fanciful idea about pig farming. They should go back and pay more attention to the opening scenes in that movie. There were pig pens stack about 5 high in those huge sheds. That’s how it is done in some parts of Europe. Haven’t seen it here though.

Celivia – most of the pictures on sites like Voiceless show pigs in ‘dry sow’ stalls. They are the ones they live in when not in the smaller farrowing crates. We have those stalls still in some sheds here and use them only to feed the sow individually. They would have about 20cm room on either side and room at the rear to step backwards to defecate over a pit.

I have visited quite a few intensive piggeries. Some now use group housing for dry sows or even eco shelters with straw bedding but one thing is common in all – farrowing crates.

Woolworths have stated in the past that they cannot support free range piggeries for environmental reasons based on a study done by, you guessed it, Australian Pork Limited. They are apparently under a lot more pressure now and trying to transfer the heat back to APL.

hello everybody

Its great to see really good post happening

Does anybody have any ideas on how we can check out many of these so called Free Range farms on the web sites.?

It would seem the industry has moved to advertsing under free Range when of course nothing is futher than the truth.

One can only assume as the preshure steps up more and more will simply list themselves as Free Range .

What about a national accreditation task force to be funded by all groups co jointly to inspect farm by farm.

I know we already have accreditations from several sources however this could be a problem because the public simply will not have the information required to make a infomred choice.

If you do a googles you will find suddenly we have free range Farmers everywhere umm.

Any thoughts on how the public will know the difference and what about false advertsing?

AND how do we get the ones off! right now we know are not the real deal.. What about our city councils doing checks? A branch of something under the health depatments maybe.? Trouble is would you trust them.

Any ideas at all most welcome.

Good Evening

Antje

Hi everyone - I'm going to dissociate myself from any further dialogue with People Against Live Exports - looking at the last two posts, it's like dealing with a split personality, and quite honestly, I can live without the angst and hostility. And since they have used this forum to "promote" slaughter operations and free-range farms under the HKM banner, they should be more fortcoming with information if they want support from people.

PF - thank you for your information, and you too, Celevia. PF, when you say that farrowing crates are used only for "feeding sows individually", how long does that mean they are in them? If they have 20cm on each side and can walk one step back/one step forward, and they are in them for any significant length of time, then the enterprise is not free range by definition, is it? I'd really like to know more about this - why they need to be in them at all, etc. Also, I take it that your pigs are not full of chemicals and drugs like those in intensive farms too. I think that's a major selling point. Goodnight, everyone.
Nicky