"If alternative meats and products, vegetarian if you like, were eventually returning more than let’s say animal products then good for share holders."

Let me see if I have this right here. You'd rather that people
eat veggie burgers then meat burgers. In others words, you are
actually a vegetarian and only tolerate us meat producers and
eaters, as you accept the reality of the day, which you accept
that you cannot change for now.

Why should any meat producing farmer trust you, if by the sound
of things, you might well shaft them in the future?

Just asking :)

Hi Yabby
I do not condemn people for eating meat; it is not my place to dictate to family, friends, colleagues etc. I guess I hope that they will eventually come to realize primarily the appalling cruelty involved in farming animals and secondly, the health risks to which they are exposing themselves. Bowel cancer, heart/coronary artery disease, all largely caused by the conscious choices people make to have the rotting flesh of dead animals decaying further in their bodies. More often than not, they are also ingesting growth hormones and substantial levels of anti-biotics as well. Enjoy the rest of your evening (and think about your next meat burger - you would be amazed at the parts of animals that find their way into them) -
Nicky

"Not too many farmers here have a few spare million lying around to set up you would have seen on landline."

You are talking about setting up intensive farms. Free range pig farms need little more resources than what are already available on existing farms.

Pasture, shelter, the use of exisiting sheep or cattle yards? Hardly need millions for that sort of setup now do you? All we need is the demand for the product. And yes, that is the ideal way to go about getting more free range farmers to come on line. Having the product first, and then trying to sell it is a much harder task. Doing the other way around will secure good prices for the farmer too. Even farmers starting from scratch would be turning out porkers within 12 months. If they started with bought in weaners, half that time.

The answer is there in front of you. Get behind the Pro Pig campaign and stop trying to throw up road blocks or we might have to pay closer attention to Yabbies observation - can any meat producer really trust you:)

Well Nicky, I've seen my share of anemic looking vegetarians,
so am not so convinced of your arguments. In the end, something
is going to kill you. I have no plans to become 95, crapping in
my pants, with alzheimers. Better a good old heart attack a bit
younger :)

What you forget of course, is that there are also farm animals who
lead happy and contented lives, are not fed antibiotics or hormones,
don't starve in drought like wild animals and are protected from
predators. I doubt if they really care who eats them when they die,
as I don't either. You are free to not eat them for your own reasons,
but its certainly not for the benefit of those animals.

Perhaps it just makes you feel good, thinking that you are being
so caring and altruistic :)

“All we need is the demand for the product.”

Exactly right, PF!
I can get free range beef or chicken and eggs, but I have NOT been able to find free-range pork in my area. I have tried several supermarkets and butchers.
I ALWAYS ask why they don’t sell free range meat, esp. pork, and the answer I usually get is: There is not enough demand for it because it’s too expensive. People choose the cheaper options.
Coles said they had more free-range meat in the past (now they only have chicken), but because it is more expensive people leave it on the shelves, then it gets past the use-by date and they have to dispose of it.
They do have some Bred-free ham, that’s all. Woollies and other supermarkets have NOTHING free-range.
I will keep asking for it- I simply haven’t eaten pork in a long time. (I did sign that pork pledge.)

I haven't asked, but perhaps if only a few people are interested in buying free range meat, it could be done on order. They probably won't bother, but if would be good if this service was available.

Perhaps writing something in the local paper from time to time might make other people demand free range produce.
Since I live in an area with lots of young families I would want to focus mostly on the health problems of eating factory meat. I will need to collect some facts such as: what really goes into the animal (antibiotics, growth hormones?). What does it do to the human body (esp. children’s' bodies)?

Any info you or anyone has on this would be very welcome- or I'll search Google.

When people realise the health benefits of free range and the dangers of feeding their children chemicals, then the price of the meat may become less of an obstacle. I prefer to eat free range meat 3 to 4 times a week rather than battery-farmed meat every day.

Nicky, I agree that vegetarianism should be a personal decision and, like religions, should not be pushed upon people.
I was a vegetarian for about ten years, but started eating meat again because I just always felt something was missing.
I eat meat about 4x a week; there is so much more food to enjoy and I was getting sick of all the mountains of beans and veggies.
There is no difference in my state of health since the change.

There is some evidence that vegetarians don’t live longer than meat-eating people. If they do, then only for around one year.
There are other factors that make it look like vegetarians live longer.

Usually, for example, vegetarians are very health conscious and therefore look after their health better generally, such as not smoking, not drinking much, exercising etc. Groups of very health conscious non-vegetarians have the same live span as vegetarians.

I know that there are also articles that do claim vegetarians live longer, so I suppose it is debatable how valid all these studies are, but I do see the logic that vegetarians are usually being more health conscious and more often than not, come from higher socio-economic backgrounds than non-health conscious people.

The indigenous people of the world enjoyed longevity as meat eaters.
They had a balanced diet of fruits, vegetables, and meat.
Australian aboriginals started to suffer major health problems only after colonalisation with the introduction of typical Western foods such as sugar, alcohol, fatty and refined foods etc.

I think our diets are personal and health conscious people will decide to eat what suits them best :)