Hi all,

It is a good point that was made by I think it is Celivia, that animal welfare groups could perhaps 'organise a joint fund' for campaining and educational purposes..
Yabby..yes it IS Ozgirl this time..:)
You may have a point that some pple sit on here and argue amongst themselves, but then that would apply to all of us in that case.

And Pf , yes there still is a lot to be said for a thread being set up for the exclusivity of PALE issues..
Then PALE would get the respect and focussed attention it needs.

"You may have a point that some pple sit on here and argue amongst themselves, but then that would apply to all of us in that case."

Ahh you miss the point Ozgirl :) I have no website to ask for
public donations to fund my activities, neither do I get any
Govt handouts, like some animal welfare groups do. If Pale
would take money from the RSPCA, they are funded by the taxpayer
to some extent, would that mean that us taxpayers are paying
for their staff to sit on the internet and argue? Is that
how taxpayers money should be used? Its a valid question.

I agree, PF, a separate thread SHOULD be established to take up the live export issues. I disagree though that it is necessarily in bad taste to bag the RSPCA on this thread - the RSPCA is usually involved in the development of Codes of Practice which result in the intensive conditions under which pigs are kept, and the RSPCA State Council in South Australia is reportedly heaving stacked with pig farmers (remember the "Four Corners" program "A Blind Eye" in June 2004? That program detailed precisely the RSPCA's involvement with battery hen farming in NSW, pig farming in SA, and the fact that there are two live export farmers on the State Council in WA). So it's a case if "if the cap fits", I'm afraid. To People Against Live Exports, I am not a member of any group, so I don't get any donations that I can detail for the public, I'm afraid. To Yabby - my friend, I do not know of any animal "welfare" group which receives any funding at all from the taxpayer other than the RSPCA, some of whose activities are funded by the various governments (is that a conflict of interest of what?). So that leaves us free to use what time we have available to argue on threads like this with a free conscience!
That's it for now.
Nicky

Yabby,

To the issue of certain groups in society being entitled to funding or not..where do we draw the line?
Your arguement to some extent is a nonsense..for everything in our economy is funded by the Taxpayer, so PALE and groups like them are only doing the same as every other group person or organisation who are asking for assistance to better conditions for animals or whatever the reason is that they apply for assistamce in the first place.

Asking for assistance to help the plight of animals .Why is that not a worthy cause.?
We have hundreds of programs set up to help a myriad of organisations to assist tsanumi victims, overseas aid,farmers,students,community health issues and on it goes.

Who decides which issues are more important?If animal welfare were not important they wouldnt be able to apply for funding, ask for donations etc, it would be illegal,branded as a scam.

If you as a farmer find yourself in deep financial trouble , do you not feel entitled to access help available to you? Wether you do or dont is your perogative of course. If so why is the aid provided to you more important than the aid available to animal groups?You dont agree with it, no, but many others do.
Society values and priorities are all based on a commonality that says that it is a priority to help and alleviate human and animal suffering and our laws are set down to attempt to provide relief and help for those groups most in need.We live in a humane society by and large.

We should not try to diminish one group for something that is a given in our society and available to all and for much less worthy causes I might venture to add.

Ozgirl
Its good to see you back posting. I have not laughed since you left.Be good girl so you can stick around. As far as I am concerned PF nobody gags me. I work for nothing and so does Wendy putting in out of her own pocket. Its all for one reason and one only. To help the Animals. We have in my opinion the best CEO of RSPCA in QLD. Thats does not mean I have to agree with every single thing RSPCA National do. As a person I am frre to agree with Ceilivia and Nicky . Nickys raised another good question and it deserves the upmost attention and support from anybody and everybody who cares about animals. If we dont discuss things in the open then how are things ever to change. I thought that was what this political forum was for. If Nicky knows this than the rest of us especially me I will not only listen and support her in any way she or her people may ask. Although she may or may not be using her real name it takes enormous courage to stand up and she's certainly by the sound of it done her homework. Yabby the only thing the groups disagree on is the vegetarian bit. Thats because PALE is pushing for this alternative co joint farming to be put up as policy to Governments. Animal Lib say they cant support it because it involves opening more abattoirs which of course does involve killing animals.
I would pefer to find alternatives than just talk about the cruelty of live exports. There is no difference between us in that regard. Your the only one that approves Live Exports.
So there is less difference between myself and them than myself and yourself.
Yes Ozgirl Celivia has got a good idea of the public trust fund and the open enquiry. Bring it on. Its ok PF I am sure I can find another sixteen hour seven day a week job for no payment. Probably Wendy as well although I cant speak for her.

Antje Struthmann

"Your arguement to some extent is a nonsense..for everything in our economy is funded by the Taxpayer,"

Absolutaly not! Many things have absolutaly no taxpayer involvement. The taxpayer does not contribute to my time
spent on OlO for instance, thats out of my own pocket,
I earnt that money. So I am accountable to myself, nobody
else. Meantime if taxpayers funds are used to fund anything,
the people receiving it, should be accountable to the taxpayer!

Remember the howls of protest on here, about taxpayer funding
animal welfare in the Middle East? I did some homework on
that. It turns out that MLA receives grants only for r&d,
all the rest of the budget is financed by levies etc. So
no taxpayer funds are used.

So my question to animal welfare groups is, if they receive
any kind of taxpayer funds, which could be through the RCPCA
etc, or even from the general public as donations, are they
fully acountable for those funds, including time spent
fooling around on the internet?

How do donors know that their money is spent wisely and efficiently?

Just because something is a feelgood story, does not mean that
money is not being wasted, either taxpayer money or donor money.
They should be fully accountable as to how funds are spent, for all
to see and know. Where do you have a problem with that?