Nicky

Well that litte smoke screen was a feeble attempt to side step your question;

"I'm also curious about where the start-up funding for this enterprise has come from, and especially how many such farms are operating through People Against Live Exports, and how many abattoirs."

As far as I can tell the answer is simply none.

I would be happy to be proved wrong, but I dont thinks so :)

Let me sort out 'that email' issue for you once and for all. It was written by me and sent privately to another person. It was meant to be a person to person conversation. PALE now have it and post it constantly on this forum in an attempt to discredit AA. They also claim that I asked them to post it - a lie. They also wrote letters to AA and Voicless in regard to that same email and my farm. Anyway, it is an old email and the current Pro Pig campaign is absolute proof of AA and Voiceless commitment to end intensive pig farming. I am so grateful to them for putting aside vegetarian issues and supporting free range farmers.

Nicky
[Said] We seem to be discussing the difference between all other groups and pale]

Gee Nicky I thought I had made most about opening vegetarian fast foods and educating people about vegetarian diets.

You said yourself you thought the fast food chain being included was an "excellent" idea.

*Ok I have been back. There are five posts where I am discusing promoting vegetarian food outlets and five on promoting Free Range Farmers and supporting the re opening of abattoirs.

Thats 50 50 Nicky. So I dont know how you can say I have not contributed to the vegetarian angle. In fact I have bent over backwards to do so.

However as you have raised it I will try to answer your question.

Yes there is a difference in the two groups.

I am in support of the main stream RSPCA belief.

RSPCA dont oppose people eating meat. They recommend animals are slaughtered as close to their origin as possible.

That is why I agree with the reopening of Abattoirs to stop Live Exports.

Not much point Nicky in protesting about Live Exports then oposing the abattoirs to re open to slaughter the animals here.

Your side is "vegetarian only" I understand that.

Which is why I put so much effort into giving ideas about promoting vegetarian fast food chains.

I have come on here in good faith as a person Antje Struthmann to talk to anyone about Animal Welfare.

The HKM report was done by David Wood a business consultant.

I will mention your concerns. I dont know him personally Nicky.

I also know he finished that report from a hospital bed afer suffering a heart attack so dedicated is he and refused to be paid for it.

Not enough people in this world like David Wood as far as I am concerned.

I know the CEO RSPCA QLD thinks highly of the man.

The Submission HKM project that is supported by PALE AFIC and RSPCA QLD is a "policy proposal" to the Federal and State Governments

Sure pigs only "Ok"

Antje Struthman

Hi all. We still seem to have the vegetarianism, and local slaughterhouses vs live exports debates going on - not to mention this apprarent feud between PF and People Against Live Exports. Still we digress from the issue we began with, too. To People Against Live Exports, have I accused you somewhere of not contributing to the vegetarian argument? I recall commending you for the idea of vegetarian fast food outlets, but other than that I don't think I have made such a comment. Perhaps you have me confused with another contributor. With regard to the Wood Report, as sections of it are not original, and it is (correct me if I am wrong) meant to be an impartial document, by whom was this man to be paid?

I also remain very curious, and still uninformed, about where the start-up funding came from for the HKM venture, and how many farms and abattoirs are "on line" with HKM at the present time. If the organizations behind it, which I understand are People Against Live Exports, RSPCA Queensland and AFIC (Australian Federation of Islamic Councils?) are all not-for-profit organizations, what is happening to profits made from the venture (no-one does that sort of stuff for nothing)?

The RSPCA is supposed to support the "Five Freedoms" as defined by the Brambell Committee in the UK in the early 1960s, yet still we have intensively farmed pigs, battery hens and broiler chickens raised in appalling conditions. Why, as the enforcer of Prevention of Cruelty to Animals legislation in all states, is the RSPCA not prosecuting these intensive farmers? Nor do I think that any farmers should receive additional rewards for being (comparatively) humane; it is simply a matter of morals (and the majority of them do not seem to be over-burdened with that concept).

I'm still rather mystified about these email exchanges and the release of confidential emails, but it looked to be one sent to People Against Live Exports from Animals Australia??
Nicky

Nicky

Nice to hear from you.
I thought you wanted to only talk about pigs. I am happy to have the good manners to respond so long as you don’t come back in a few posts time and blame me for not sticking to pigs

Before I do go on however don’t you think that was a great post regarding pigs from PF and should every body not be asking questions so the public can hear first hand about the cruelty of intensive pig farms? Nobody could tell it to the public better than somebody who understands pigs well.
The public would really listen to another pig farmer Nicky. I just think that’s more important at present. Hope you do not mind but hey how lucky to actually have somebody and on the forum with that knowledge and willing to help. I am sure you are just being polite but please save your posts for the pigs as you first pointed out.

Now I have seen that post I would like to think PF would be given front row first cab off the rank. Also for the animals and for legal reasons I am not going to continue with the email saga. I think it is far more important to get something on record from the mouth of a real pig farmer for the animal’s sake

Now to answer your question

No I didn’t confuse you with another poster. I was responding to your post above which commenced as follows

[We still seem to be laboring under the ‘your side’ my side approach, and what seems to be a feud between people against live ports virus all the other groups.]
That is an interesting comment.
I don’t want to disappoint you but the HKM details are not mine just to give out. Not the confidential MOUs etc that are held by Wendy.
May I ask Nicky if you are a member of PETA?

I saw a Nicky posting on another forum and I just wondered if it was you.

No Room

[leaves posts for pigs and catch you late

Nicky
There is always confusion over the powers the RSPCA have. They are supposed to support the five freedoms, but that is their ideal, not the law. The RSPCA act as an agent to enforce the ‘Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act’ They are paid by the government to do so. They can only enforce laws within the act. Factory farming is not illegal, so the RSPCA are powerless to do anything about it.

As for the continual ranting about live export etc, it happens on any thread that lot come into and just disrupts the whole discussion and prevents input from new posters that have heard it all before. So, there will never be true debate about the plight of factory farmed pigs here. Rather ironic that they cruel topics that are animal welfare related.

Keep asking her that question though. She will never tell you because the answer is none.

A suggestion antje/wendy, why dont you start a thread dedicated to pale and live exports and stick to that subject. I promise not to participate. That way if there is any interest at all in what you have to say, you will have the floor, uninterupted.

I will leave you two to it.

Nicky

The first paragraph was good. “continue’. Perhaps PF would make a video for use on the campaign.. TV ads to tell it like it is to the public. If all work together- its possible

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=rspca+pigs+cruelty+intensive+fair+go+&btnG=Google+Search&meta=cr%3DcountryAU

http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:Jga60M7Rh4QJ:www.rspca.org.au/admin/Resources/25_fairgo.pdf+rspca+pigs+cruelty+intensive+fair+go&hl=en&gl=au&ct=clnk&cd=2

http://perthimc.asn.au/?action=newswire&parentview=7271&&pagenumber=1&showall=true

http://www.voiceless.org.au/Media_Section/Media_Releases/Christmas_Ham_-_What_a_Sham.html

http://www.sbs.com.au/insight/trans.php3?transid=678

.
http://www.aact.org.au/pig_industry.htm.

. I am typing this copy of the comments made earlier by PF because that’s what the public need to hear . focus. PF is the best thing for the pigs Ask her the right questions

"WRITTEN BY A FREE RANGE PIG FARMER"- SPEAKS OF THE CRUELTY OF FACTORY PIG FARMING- don’t FEED THIS TO YOUR KIDS

Given the intensive conditions pigs are raised under it is necessary fo those growers to use antibiotics to combat disease that is so easily spread. Pigs have in-feed antibiotics from when they can first eat until just before slaughter (to allow for withholding periods)
They are fed synthetic amino acids because they cannot obtain them from an unnatural grain diet alone.

Paylean is a drug used to stop porkers laying down fat.

Stresnil is a sedative used to stop fighting and make sows easier to handle. (room to run away from confrontation would work too :) ) The name of this product is a true indication of the problem. There is only a 6 hour withholding period for this drug.

In feed dewormers are used routinely. Some are injected.

There are also routine treatments for mange and lice with pesticides.

They would have us believe though that there are no residues left in pork raised this way. mmmmm

Add to that the stressful conditions and the filth that a lot of these animals are forced to live in

Imagine the stress a pig, that has been raised under artificial light its entire life, goes through when it is suddenly forced onto the back of a truck with unknown pigs in broad daylight. Probably the first time it has seen the sun. No wonder some of them just die of heart failure. They blame that on a genetic fault though

http://www.livexports.com/freerangefarmerssupportgroup/