I think Australians would have accepted muslims had the muslims been acceptable. However they chose to come here as "asylum seekers" , after disposing of their passports on the way. Rioting and the sewing of lips and other violence in detention centres acted as a wake up to many of us. A true asylum seeker would have been so relieved to be here that that behaviour would have been unthinkable.
The ghettoism was not acceptable when Australians saw their suburbs gradually being taken over and being made no go areas. this also happened in UK.
The rapes , the unbearable bullying by Lebanese, the street gangs, the criminals coming in as "asylum seekers" , the users and abusers of our society.
And the obvious dislike of our society by the likes of Keyser Trad, Bendrica, Hilali, Osram and the rest have not made things better,
But we are the ones accused of 'racism'. Why should we accept the unacceptable!

Spare us the feigned indignation about racism and intolerance, Mr Aziliz. All religions are secular by nature and until every God of every religion allows non believers into their particular heaven, the they are just as racist as you and me.

Your claim that 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants from backward societies are so prone to criminal behaviour because of the way that they are treated at school does not wash. The violence and intimidation by children of the Muslim faith towards teachers, especially female teachers, is now so bad in schools in the perpetually "troubled" South West of Sydney, that teachers are refusing to teach in these schools. These are not just secondary schools but even primary schools.

If Islamic people in Australia are now being the subject of threats and intimidation, there is one way to mitigate that. You must immediately and publically disassociate yourself from any person preaching violence and hatred towards Australians and western values in general. You must also condemn them unconditionally.

Recently, thousands of Muslims marched in Sydney against a French decision to ban headscarves in France. Australians consider it instructive that “Australian” Muslims can find the enthusiasm to march about an a minor social issue in another country, yet can not summon the same zeal to march against Muslim fundamentalist fanatics who have declared war on the western world in the name of your religion. One can only conclude that Muslims will never do this, because despite the bland assurances of two faced Muslim Imams and Muslim spokesmen, because they support the terrorists.

If your co religionists propagate the notion that Muslims are one thing, and everybody else on the planet are something else, then you can hardly cry if the rest of the world returns the compliment to you.

Keith

You asked if I would subject my Muslim friends and colleagues to a mini inquisition on Australian 'values' with your request:

"So my point is would you two like to do as I have done. Then draw your own conclusions."

I would no more do that than I would interrogate my Christian, agnostic, buddhist or hindu friends and colleagues - how intolerant and just plain rude! I prefer to let actions speak for themselves. I deal with people as they treat me. I certainly don't like every Muslim I meet and can certainly say the same about other people also.

Just the very fact of interrogation such as you have performed - sets you up as judge and jury and also tells your Muslim 'defendants' that they are not to be trusted. How would you like to be questioned in such a manner?

On the subject of Australian 'values' they vary from Aussie to Aussie I no more share the same values with the likes of Coach, Redneck or Boaz than I do with Fellow Human or Irfan. I may have some things in common, but for one I do not follow any formal religion, nor do I believe in such anachromisms as a 'woman's place' as Boaz believes.

What I am trying to say is that so-called Aussies (as in white-euro-anglo) vary in their beliefs, religion, politics to a wide degree - within the one culture that we refer to as Australian. Some Aussies believe in the death penalty; some don't....and so on...

So why do you think a few unsatisfactory answers from a few Muslims holds sway over all Muslims?

BTW my moniker is SCOUT - think To Kill a Mockingbird :-)

DAVID LATIMER

Thanks David.. I added the word 'all' in regard to Muslims to be detained. I was interpreting the 'tone' of Irfans post

["If the Federal Government decided to round up Muslims and have them detained in detention camps, would you support such a move?"]

You mentioned 'masses'. Ok.. apologies for not being tighter in my terms. Let me just re-state my actual point about 'declaration of war'. I tied that to the holding up of signs such as "Death to those who insult the prophet", and I stand by that linking.

They are the types who I would incarcerate. It is a clear violation of our anti terror laws, and undelines the importance of having them.

SCOUT
there is nothing wrong with asking how muslims or buddhists or anyone feels about the laws and values of this country, as long as it is done without an 'inquisitorial' attitude. You tend to go in leaps and bounds to inquisition dont ya. My bosnian Muslim friend at the gym and I had that conversation, along with things about self defence, -he shows me how to break a blokes arm with some martial art, and I show him how to duck and weave in boxing, and we talk about history and lots of things. Oh..speaking about self defense.. mate, forget the 'roundhouse'kick.. takes toooo much time. Frontal kick to the groin is MUCH quicker and more effective. aah.. my work is done :)

You realllly hate that 'womans place' thing eh :) Its about 'complementary' rather than competitive. Working as a team.
You don't need to pick me about that.. if you re-marry, just choose someone who shares your own views. Problem solved. ( *points to Robert* :)

TO ALL (posters)
again, I find myself thrilled that we are talking about these issues and others. Engaging differing points of view.

Freedom and the right to criticize is a beautiful thing.

All-The truth isn't propaganda.

"Australia is a Land of a Fair Go-not have a unfair go at it’s population and steal its foundations and values"

Moslems aren't stealing your foundations and values.

Threatening people in the fashion I described in my previous post isn't giving them a fair go.

I'm a sixth generation Australian and my islamic relative was a seventh.

The foundations and values I grew up with are eroding and it isn't moslems doing it-it's people like you.

As a teengager I lived in a society that did give people a fair go, that encouraged a multicultural approach, there was free university education, free medical and a society that was at the forefront of human rights advocacy.

There were bigots around but they didn't run the show.

I have lived to see the mentally ill tipped onto the street, then villified and put in prison when they can't conform to societies norms.

I have seen a society that was the closest to being classless start increasing the gap between the rich and the poor and I see class attitudes arising.

I have seen a society with a generous welfare system that cared about the unfortunate cut it back viciously and continuously as they villify them.

I have seen a country that had a relaxed attitude change with an ever increasing suicide rate (one peak was when they privatised much of the public service in 1992 and so many lost their jobs).

I have seen a country that once cared about people and their families, craftsmanship and quality in their work become ever more the slave of pure profit.

I remember a country that would never have tolerated and supported officially sanctioned torture and would've been outraged at any President that advocated the suspension of the Geneva Convention. That would have railed against incarceration without charges.

All-People like you have stolen my country's values away. You can do it for one reason-this country is a democracy. Whatever the majority votes for goes. Our culture is based on constant change-there are no foundations which cannot be eroded and there are no values that can't be voted out.

So you're a fool to talk about not wanting to change in a system based integrally around change. Go migrate to a country that follows an unquestionable set of laws that cannot change if you don't like it. Hang on-that sound's like Sharia. Interesting isn't it-you're behaving like a fundamentalist crazy moslem.

Redneck/All-if you read my post you would know I'm not a moslem. This happened on other posts. It doesn't matter how clear my posts are I'm not a moslem (even if I criticise Islam) if I say one word in their defence then I am a Moslem. On one thread I discussed a wide range of religions without getting any reaction but when I mentioned Islam-all of a sudden, I was a moslem, and all this hatred started spewing. Weird. Stupid.

Moslems disassociating themselves from any person preaching violence doesn't work. As long as they're moslem they'll be attacked no matter how much they disassociate themselves. I guess what you really mean is they have to stop being moslems.

There are religions that allow nonbelievers into heaven-you don't know much about religion.

Mickjo-not all moslems came here as asylum seekers who wound up in detention centres. Most migrated, or have been in Australia for generations and others are Australian converts. Saying that is just hysterical.

That's right Keith-blame the moslems after all they hit and spit on themselves. There are a lot of Moslems who respect the things you suggest they should. There are very few on this list that uphold freedom of speech and religion-why else would there be so many that think that the moslems deserve to be treated the way I spoke of in my earlier post?

It's Australians that are changing Australia into a fundamentalist and unfree place where there is no fair go.