So much bigotry. So much ignorance. I am surprised that this is not seen as flame.

I can give a reason why the second and third generation are worse than the recently arrived-because they are physically attacked and abused at school-no doubt by the children of people like most of the posters here.

Never attack an entire religious group. The specific actions and ideologies of individuals-yes and the specific doctrines that you find offensive with a reasoned and logical case but not all the members. The amount of Moslem bashing that is going on this thread includes so much blind bigotry and hatred.

I have a relative who converted to Islam who is a valued member of our extended family. Through him I have got to know many moslems. They are not all the stereotypes that are served up on this thread, and they certainly don't deserve the vitreolic attacks on them that are happening here. Many of them are extremely well educated-including the women. Many of them have very loving relationships and families-in fact for that they put our western culture to shame.

I have spoken to a range of australians who tell me they became moslem because they were upset about the disintegration of family life in our culture and they were sick of the gross emphasis on sex and beer.

The women especially and they like dressing modestly. It is one of the reasons they converted-yes they chose it because they felt exploited by western men for sex and found the men of the local moslem community were more respectful to them. We are talking about individuals here. I will not say there aren't other moslems who are not respectful but the community I have come to know are very respectful and loving towards their women and towards non-moslems and they always treated me simply as a human being and not someone to convert, villify or ignore.

But my moslem relative and his wife have been harrassed, spat on in the street, abused, given death threats, his wife has been threatened with rape even when she is just going shopping because she wears the hijab and they've been threatened their children will be kidnapped and killed. I am ashamed I live in a culture that can threaten peaceful and loving people (and I am now talking about the individuals) like that.

The result is they have left Australia and are living in a moslem country to escape from the abuse. They could see how detrimental it would be for their children to be brought up in a country that hated and abused them. He had to leave his extended family who loves him and as a very sociable person who has a wide range of moslem and non-moslem friends he has also had to leave them.

No doubt their are many on this list who would think that a good thing. But your blind bigotry could create the enemy you expect simply because you give others little other choice.

What a cheek when you support the invasion of their countries. The migrants didn't invade ours. They came in peacefully. Not with 'Shock and Awe' tactics to beat them into submission bombing mothers, children and babies. The twin towers were one terrorist group that didn't even have any links to Iraq. The palestinians were forced from their homes, they were militarily attacked and had to run, their lives shattered-then every time one of them does something wrong to the Israelis their entire family and their community is attacked-individuals cannot say 'but I want peace it was his fault' the whole lot are thrown in the same basket. Yet it doesn't even sink into your heads how that would feel. Just try imagining it being you. hmm-not likely most on this list would try that.

Don't come back and tell me there are bad moslems-I know that. Don't come back and say the Koran says this and this-I know that. None of that justifies this kind of behaviour.

Aziliz - as usual the voice of reason.

I too socialise and have worked with Muslims. The most vitriolic of the posters to this thread clearly do not know many Muslims well. They probably don't want to get to know them for fear that they will discover that Muslims are just like the rest of us - good, bad, whatever.

The lists posted by Coach & Numbat could fit many people. Not all Aussies dress in 'normal' clothes (some of my more alternative friends wear some very strange gear) or have quiet kiddies or lack a boom box in their cars. The comments by people such as these reveal their ignorance and don't need to be deleted because in their absurdity they show just how dumb some people can be.

I tried an experiment last year when I wrapped the scarf I was wearing around my head hijab style. Travelling on public transport, I was subsequently jostled and given the kind of looks I would've thought reserved for paedophiles.

I can well believe the experiences of your Muslim friends, Aziliz.

Cheers

Best keep that Arab Propaganda for the Middle East, it is not, and will not be welcome here. Reverse Psychology is easily detected. If you are not happy, then pack your bags and get out. Continuing down that line of thought will only prove futile and counterproductive. You are indeed not THE VICTIM, if you are; it is of your own belligerence.
We have had enough of the Cultural Marxists and the Typical adopted Islamic methodology of deception and Linguistic corruption, and before you start with more Psychological reversing tactics, understanding the root cause. And you will find it is your own pathetic Ideology. We have just as much contempt for our own pathological corrupt, so take them back with you. Good By.

Australia is a Land of a Fair Go- not have a unfair go at it’s population and steal its foundations and values

Hi Scott and Aziliz

You have described some despicible behaviours.

However the problem is not of bigotry but more ignorance.
I have engaged many Muslims in dialogue. I have many questions as I lack a great understanding of the way of life of many Muslims
I have no fear of being overrun, raped or murdered.
I do however have some very great concerns about the cohesion and future of our multi-cultural society. In particular my concern is similar to those recently expressed by Peter Costello. Underlying our not so 'mushy' multuiculturalism are precepts concerning commitment to the Constitution, parliamentary democracy, freedom of speech and religion, english as the national language, the rule of law, acceptance and equality.

On many occassions I have asked individual Muslims of their acceptance of these notions. Indeed in fairness I have followed Irfan's lead and now often ask for a definition of Australian Multi-culturalism.

Many avoid the question, others answer in an oblique way that says little but a great deal by inference, and many are totally unaware of these things.

I don't hate anybody, I fear ignorance and I worry about the future for my kids.

So my point is would you two like to do as I have done. Then draw your own conclusions. I think you'd be surprised at the lack of understanding of the need to commit to these things while living in Australia. I think that needs to be overcome. If that's done most of the current devisive discussion and obrium will disappear.

Regards

ANY Australian, white (Northern European) or otherwise, is free to leave this country if they are not happy here. Sorry whites, but you only claim ownership.