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The Forum > Article Comments > An ignorant Australian? > Comments

An ignorant Australian? : Comments

By Irfan Yusuf, published 22/2/2006

Editorial writers of 'The Australian' seek to paint a picture of a monolithic culture of recently arrived Muslim migrants.

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Oh! aziliz: On another forum you chide me for being abusive - what's this the pot calling the kettle black? You do not do to bad in the abuse and ridicule yourself. As well you also see yourself correct and everyone who doesn't have your views as a twit. Your a sad sad person. numbat
Posted by numbat, Sunday, 5 March 2006 10:39:39 AM
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Let's be more specific Numbat. I chided you for having an entire post full of abuse only. Not one fact, not one issue, no rational debate-just abuse. GZTan's posts on this and 4211 are also far too abusive. You can't answer such posts.

I tend to ignore the rest of the abuse in posts so long as there are some facts or issues to deal as well but I will admit the abuse combined with having to repeat myself over and and over and over and then having redneck come back and still say the same old-"your a moslem and you suck" and "you think the west is all bad and that moslems are all good" when I constantly say I'm not a moslem and have issues with both sides, did get to me. I don't retract from labelling it as unintelligent but I could have cut out some of the comments.

I get abuse in reply to an unabusive discussion of issues, a list of facts, snippets of history, or quotes from the Bible in fact anything I say.

You and GZTan are the ones most inclined to abuse without giving any information, not much of a prize for you two. Your idea of a discussion seems to speak insults like throwing verbal stones at people. GZTan also doesn't seem to understand the difference between commenting on what someone says and therefore being relevant to what they say and starting a new subject and also gets upset if someone says something positive as though it is taboo to be anything but insulting.

I genuinely say this to help you improve your posts-there's a whole internet out there where you can research what you say and bring us some real information and many interesting posts with information and links posted by others on the forum. Give us something interesting to think about instead of just thinking "there they go again calling people names because they have nothing worthwhile to say".

Look forward to your next post to see if there is an improvement.
Posted by Aziliz, Sunday, 5 March 2006 8:57:51 PM
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Aziliz,

You got carried away in your ranting and rebukes of others. Inside you was a belief that you were more intelligent than everyone else.

I was simply returning you in kind and bringing you down to earth.

As for your comment that I "...abuse without giving any information..."

Unlike you, I am not an 'information' person. Rather, I am a 'logic' person.

To me, information is subject to distortions and becomes useless if the logic-processing of it is frauded. That's what I like to point out to people.

Each of my 'abuse' carries a brief but sufficient information for logical analysis. If this is not your cup of tea then I can't help it. I only have so many hours a day.
Posted by GZ Tan, Sunday, 5 March 2006 9:39:16 PM
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GZTan-logic and information are not mutually exclusive. If you don't know much about another religion or about the political history that is behind current events then you don't know what you are talking about. I feel so sorry for you that you could think for a moment they are antithetical.

You think you brought me down to earth by calling me names?

I feel so sorry for you that you despise knowledge, think you can be 'logical' without it and then think that you are doing something positive by abusing people.

When I see a string of abuse of the kind you come up with I think the person abusing is ignorant so there is no bringing me 'down to earth' with abuse-you have the opposite effect.

Your 'logic' *is* based on 'information' and if your information is scant or lopsided then so is your 'logic'.

Poor GZ, I am imagining you living in a family that despised study but thought shouting and abusing people was an appropriate way to conduct a discussion. Where you didn't have to know anything to be smarter than everyone else. Just shout louder and use the biggest swear words.

I was brought up in a family that loved books and knowledge, where discussion was lively and noone was abused and belittled for knowing something. Where books, encyclopaedias and our huge Webster Dictionary were often consulted mid discussion to make sure we had our facts straight. Where the weekly trip to the library was a joy.

You cannot return to me in kind if you are more abusive and less informative. You are returning to me in a totally different kind.
Posted by Aziliz, Monday, 6 March 2006 6:42:32 AM
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Aziliz,

It does not surprise me you keep making statements that are frauded in reasoning. This is because a person like you (who loved books and knowledge) has a tendency for rote learning.

There are plenty like you.

You are incorrect. 'logic' and 'information' are completely different things. 'mutual exclusiveness' does not apply.

Logic has NO dependency on information. But information without proper logic is DEAD and useless. Information is just that- information. A statement of deception is also a piece of information. Information does not equal fact or truth. Through logical reasoning, one filters out frauded information, arrive at facts, then those facts are used to support further logical reasoning in the following fashion:

Logic + fact --> truth

U wrote: "... if your information is scant or lopsided then so is your 'logic'."

This frauded statement confirms one fact - Your ability to reason is dependent on information that you perceive. ie. you are never really a good thinker in the first place.

This equation below describes you quite well:

Selective Information + 'frauded logic' = Distorted view

Sorry, books, encyclopaedias.... trip to the library... do not impress me at all... because so far your ability to think does not impress me (and not just me, I might add).

So much for years of hard slog...
Posted by GZ Tan, Monday, 6 March 2006 9:21:33 AM
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The End of Tolerance
Farewell, multiculturalism. A cartoon backlash is pushing Europe to insist upon its values.

March 6, 2006 issue - The world has long looked upon the Dutch as the very model of a modern, multicultural society. Open and liberal, the tiny seagoing nation that invented the globalized economy in the 1600s prided itself on a history of taking in all comers, be they Indonesian or Turkish, African or Chinese.

How different things look today. Dutch borders have been virtually shut. New immigration is down to a trickle. The great cosmopolitan port city of Rotterdam just published a code of conduct requiring Dutch be spoken in public. Parliament recently legislated a countrywide ban on wearing the burqa in public. And listen to a prominent Dutch establishment figure describe the new Dutch Way with immigrants. "We demand a new social contract," says Jan Wolter Wabeke, High Court Judge in The Hague. "We no longer accept that people don't learn our language, we require that they send their daughters to school, and we demand they stop bringing in young brides from the desert and locking them up in third-floor apartments."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11569485/site/newsweek/
Germany failed with their own “Guest worker” Program and even the French integration failed spectacularly not so very long ago – where, guess who, rampaged and rioted for weeks over two criminals getting themselves killed through their own ignorance.

However new European immigration criteria will test for “assimilability” i.e. mix in – or get out and those who do not assimilate will be deported back to their country of origin. It is my line of reasoning that people should respect the host country and not be parasitical.

Too many people have argued here that Moslems are not getting a “fair go” and we are racist, which is patently a stilted sectarian bias as it is a recent phenomenon with the catalyst being the Lebanese Moslems and their hatred emanating from their radical uneducated leaders who know no better.
Posted by Kekenidika, Monday, 6 March 2006 11:58:43 AM
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