Kaktuz,

We do see the ugliness of some who call themselves Muslims. I just read they killed the Egyptian ambassador in Iraq (seen by many as a good Muslim).
We are not in denial about some who adopt violent ideologies neither about the dysfunctional dictators who created them.

And since you are into “facts” here are some:

We are not in denial about AlQaeda and who created it, sponsored it in Afghanistan when it was killing other Muslims in Egypt, Sudan and Yemen.
President Sadat ‘created’ Islamic Jihad’ to help him fight the communism in Egypt in 1970. They fought communism and guess that they fought after that: killed Sadat himself.
AlQaeda funding, training, and even recruitment was done with US support during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
The moral of the story is always the same: ‘tamper with ideology and the dog will turn around one day and bit your arm”

Here is a summary of 29 years experience living breathing the culture, religion and geography:
Al Qaeda and its parallels is an ideology feeding on:

- Opression: comfy dictatorship.
- Religious ignorance: created by above dictators in order to protect themselves; “American conspiracy/ Israeli conspiracy” is the religious message dictators feed their simple folks to justify their existence. So, economical dysfunction, unemployment corruption its all because of the ‘bad Americans” (who ironically, appointed them to their jobs).
- Poverty
- Failing US foreign policy: and I need ‘books’ on this not 350 words.
- Failing/ lack of Israeli vision/ leadership for the Middle East.
Get rid of the five pillars and the ideology is gone.

BD,

I can recall my father’s wisdom: “strongest argument is usually within the same family”. You are preaching to the converted here: I love Jesus and I believe in him as all Muslims should. Although got to admit that some of us don’t give him the mentioning he is worth because of ‘political correctness’.

Ash

Fellow_Human,

Stop blaming the free nations of the west for horific acts of barbarism done in the name of Allah by those advocating jihad against the free West. The free nations of the West will run to the assistance of oppressed people regardless of their religion, eg Kurds, Aech.

Let us look at equal human justice for all, and stop justifying evil acts done in the name of Allah. Every man is equal and all deserve equal respect and justice, regardless of race or religion. Start condemning injustice and barbarism, do not excuse it.

Perhaps there is call here for investigation into your personal allegiance: is it to the people of Australia or to Islamic jihad.

BD: "If you try to put yourself into the situation of the day, a captive woman could in fact refuse, if you look at the guidelines in Leviticus on this issue."
Where in Leviticus? You say it was consentual, but I think that is a rather naive & rosy view, ignoring the "historical realities of the time". Why whould she need to "bewail her father and her mother" if it were?

"Further, it was his desire for her as WIFE, not sex toy."
Love at first sight huh? (For him anyway.) Beautiful woman? No, not about sex AT ALL.

"...faced with the possibilities of 'servitude' over 'wife' I think ultimately wife would be the more attractive option."
Beautiful, desired captives get the choice between sex and work, and that makes it all better?

"Bear in mind, the 'enemies' were out to SLAUGHTER the Israelites, so don't be too harsh on their approach to treatment of those they allowed to live."
You're using many different rationalisations here BOAZ_David. How do you know they were trying to slaughter the Israelites and that the Israelites weren't also? Go and crush etc... The Deuteronomy passage has general application, it isn't for a specific group of enemies. Also, by that logic it would be OK for Western nations to let soldiers take the daughters of terrorists as wives.

If the justification is historical realities or social need then there must be some good reason for it. Alternatively, historical relativism poses greater theological problems, ie. that God would be unable to protect Israel or give them an eternal moral system.

Do Muslims say that every aspect of the Quran has the same relevance today as when it was written? Of course not, situations change but the underlying values remain. Just because it is the word of God does not mean that circumstances do not change. Jesus did not prenounce the old law to be wrong and the new testament accepted slavery. The arguments work both ways.

And aren't the Caliphs/Imams succesors to Mohammed?

Kactuz, how many times have christians bombed London? Remember the IRA before making disingenous comments like "Who can it be?" Remember the Spanish government first assumed the Madrid bombings were the work of the catholics from ETA. Muslims don't have a monopoly on terrorism, and it is folly to pretend they do. Fanatics come in all creeds. Intolerance comes in all creeds - one of the most intolerant people I ever met was (nominally, although his behaviour belied it) Ba'hai. Sadly, it's being human that is the chief cause of these atrocities.

Yes indeed kactuz. And I don't think I'd mistaken in thinking the US forces were sent into Afghanistan and then Iraq by Mister Christianity himself, George Bush Jnr. It seems to me there is not just one religion that has a monopoly on warmongering in its name. Bastardisation of faiths occurs everywhere by opportunistic leaders of ill-will, and has done for aeons. Clearly the moral authority that "religions" offer is not necessarily guided by a commitment to peace or to non-aggressive means of resolving political difference, territorial grabs or any of those other tawdrey material and idealogical disputes most of the great religions and denominations purport to be 'above'.......

It is so obvious that America has caused all the terrorism in the world that is if we were to believe all the Anti American bigitory posted here. When will the individual terrorist be responsible for his own barbaric actions? George forced hin to do it!

It would be nice to live in a world where there no enemies of the people. Learn who is the enemy. Ask who will befriend you when your life is threatened? Will it be George or Osama? If not George then you are a threat to Australia.