David, nothing wrong with 5 year plans or apologising to the Aboriginal people of AUSTRALIA for past and present injustices - BOTH POSITIVE .
But fair dinkum David, swap our way of life for their's in South Korea,Singapore, Taiwan and Malaysia -you are having a lend of us [again] !

Tao, on the scale of “gibbering idiocy”, your statement
“Further you are RELIANT ON THE STATE to SUPPRESS those workers’ attempts to get a better deal for themselves.”

Must rate as one of the most asinine I have ever heard.

No one forces those 9 sales people to work for me.

I know my business success is, in part, reliant on their effort, just as their success is reliant on the products which I have developed, at my cost, over the past 5 years, because, without those products, they would have nothing to sell.
I defend my right to decide who I will work with and extend that right to everyone else.

As for “Col. Deny and lie.”
I deny and lie about nothing,
That you cannot deal with people organizing themselves without your intercession or approval. reflects your paranoia, maybe they will be on a better deal than you could imagine.

I certainly told these people, I hoped they would make themselves a fortune (and me too).

Steve Madden” I will give Col credit for employing 9 salesmen,”

I did not say I employed, sorry if my using the word “staff” implied I did when I said “training nine sales staff”

These 9 are all on performance only commissions. The tenth wanted a retainer and declined our offer when she could not get one.

I would also say of the original 10, not one of them had any problem with the commission structure, in fact feed back on that was, it was extremely generous.

As for “This allows the business owner to take no risk, the employees cost them nothing, if they sell enough product to make the boss happy they keep the job, if they do not meet their targets they get shafted.”

My risk is
my investment,
business leads which I supply getting “burnt”
Missed opportunity, I do not want so many sales reps that they are running over each other.

I have found those who can “perform” do and those who cannot “complain” about everything and make excuses.

So Steve, how well did you “perform”?

Col,

I'm surprised, all you are is a professional door to door hawker!

I would have thought you would have been something much more sophisticated and erudite.

A lawyer (QC even) or something in the upper professional classes?

Alas not.

I don't know why I feel disapointed, but I do, strange as it may seem.

Col,

“I-know-my-business-success-is,-in-part,-reliant-on-their-effort,-just-as-their-success-is-reliant-on-the-products-which-I-have-developed.” Isn’t that what is called “collective” effort. Just like sending an army to war is a collective effort. If you know your success is reliant on the effort of others, why do you continue with the individualistic self-reliance nonsense? Are you in denial, or lying? Or do you just not fully understand the meaning of your own words?

“No one forces those 9 sales people to work for me”. Actually, they are forced to work for someone, whether it is you or someone else, because otherwise they don’t eat (unless of course they become an employer and then others are forced to work for them in order to eat). You delude yourself if you think that people have absolute freedom of choice when it comes to the method by which they put food on the table. And you delude yourself if you think that those people magically appear from nowhere desirous of working for Col Rouge Inc. Those 9 people work for you because we live in an economic system where 10 per cent of people (probably less) own the means of production, so the other 90 per cent are forced to work for them. If it were not those 9, it would be another 9. Your so-called ‘success’ is dependant upon other people’s inability to put food on their table.

“That-you-cannot-deal-with-people-organizing-themselves-without-your-intercession-or-approval.-reflects-your-paranoia,-maybe-they-will-be-on-a-better-deal-than-you-could-imagine”. Where have I ever said that I should intercede or give my approval? You are making things up, I explicitly said that I merely defend the rights of workers to organise themselves, even though I don’t support trade union leadership or ideology. To be more precise, I believe workers have the right to run their places of employment and society itself on the basis of their own needs and the needs of society generally, as they see fit. You on the other hand, require the intercession of the STATE to enforce your “right” to profit from their work.

Rainier “I'm surprised, all you are is a professional door to door hawker! . . . . . . .

I don't know why I feel disappointed, but I do, strange as it may seem.”

Why on earth do you assume I “hawk” anything, surely it is easy to understand, the point of appointing sales staff, so they do the “hawking”.

Although, I did “sell” the initial products, that is the best way of doing product research, by getting prospect / buyer feed back and deciding the best method of delivery. In fact it was driving back form that first sales appointment that my business partner and I had an almost “cathartic experience” when I followed up with some analysis of an idea which has completely revolutionized exactly how we deliver what we produce.

We also follow-up to find out about the medium term “product benefits”, which have been considerable.

That said, “door-to-door” is hardly the most effective way when selling business-to-business, especially when one has the direct and ongoing support and endorsement of an industry association (a great commercial strategy which I put into place 5 years ago at the start of this process), for developing “product credentials” in a competitive market place. Of course, all this is probably commonplace for you, rainier.

Some of us are talented in more than one area. That is because we focus on doing what needs to be done and not what might “disappoint” other people and, of course, we listen, instead of preaching from on high.

Oh, I do have some exclusive professional qualifications but “lawyer / QC”, if ever there were “hawkers”, lawyers make typical ones, whoring their understanding of the law books and dressing up in wigs and gowns to do it.

So what rarified credentials do you “trade” on rainier?

I have had a very varied work career. I sometimes say that I left school not knowing what I wanted to do and never found out. I never got any formal qualifications in anything either, I just had a go at a number of things and some of them worked out OK.

In one of what almost feels like a previous incarnation, I was pricing and costing officer with a large distribution/wholesale/retail company supplying building and engineering products. As such, one of my responsibilities was Sales Tax. Although there were many anomalies in the tax rates and applications, I found the basic system to be simpler to apply that GST.

Many years later, I was a manufacturer of a tax exempt item used in the building trade. My company had a Sales Tax number, issued by the Taxation dept, which excluded me from paying sales tax on materials and components which became part of my product. Compare that simple system with my present business situation. I pay GST on virtually everything and then offset it against on the GST which is paid to me. I know which system I prefer.

I became bored with the office situation and went on the road as a salaried sales rep, with company car, open expense account and other benefits. After a while, I negotiated a massive, automatically repeating consumables contract with one of the big mining companies in the Pilbara. After working out what that could have meant to me if I had been on just a small percentage commission, I asked my employers to put me on straight commission. They refused, so I started looking for something else.

cont