My my holyshadow, may I suggest that after today's posts, you try
getting out of the other side of the bed tomorrow, clearly you
got it wrong this morning :)

I remind you that whilst for you the OLO animal threads might be
a bit of light entertainment to relieve your boredom,for me
its a serious political issue. If animal libbers had their way,
it could seriously wreck the community that I live in, the lives
of thousands, many who could have their income halved. If people
were posting falsehoods about something that could halve your
income and that of your friends and community, how would you react?

Quite frankly I don't post here to entertain holyshadow, but because
I believe there has been far too much nonsense promoted by various
veggie groups, whose real aim is that we all stop animal
farming and eating meat. These people seem pretty obsessed by their
agenda.

You haven't done your homework. I have been posting on the slippery
slope thread virtually every day. But its about philosophy, which
could well be above your head. Note that only yesterday, I congratulated
a female poster on her excellent posts, so there goes
your female theory :) Yup, usually I only post on 2-3 threads at
a time, there are other things here that need doing. A few minutes
a day on OLO is enough for my purposes.

Nobody is made to feel unwelcome on OLO. But the fact is that
if people post rubbish, the whole purpose of free debate is to
point out that its rubbish and why. If you have points to make
that discredit my arguments, you are free to make them. Sorry,
but I'm not into the bitch sessions about people, I'd rather
stick to the facts.

Hi Yabby
Post 1: Here is a bit of an example of how "nervous" these people are about what they do (text of a complaint which has been sent to the Minister and to AQIS by a group who shall remain nameless):-

"We refer to the Australian Standards for the Export of Livestock (Version 2), current from September 2006. We are informed by AQIS that these standards are mandatory.

We draw attention in particular to Standard 1 – the sourcing and on-farm preparation of livestock, and refer to part 1.5A:-

“Bos taurus cattle bred in an area of Australia south of latitude 26 degrees south must not be sourced for export to the Middle East from May to October unless an agreed livestock heat stress risk
assessment indicates that the risk is manageable. [less than a 2% risk of 5% mortality]

We have attached photographs of calves from that particular shipment in the Ztofar Quarantine Facility in Israel. It is clear from these photographs that, although there are some Bos Indicus calves amongst the ill, the majority of these animals, particularly amongst those in the pit of the dead, are of the Bos Taurus type. Please note also the ear tags, or remains of them, clearly indicate that these are Australian animals. We would like to know how many of the Bos Taurus type were included in this shipment and at which port they were loaded.

Given that latitude 26 degrees south crosses Western Australia somewhere close to Geraldton, we are particularly seeking information about the region/s from which the Bos Taurus calves were sourced, in the context of the above section of the ALES Version 2. The “Maysora” loaded in Portland on October 2 and 3, “topping up” in Fremantle and finally leaving Australia on October 18. It unloaded first in Aqaba in Jordan, then Eilat in Israel on November 3 and 4 before proceeding to Egypt".

That's all that can fit here. It is only a part of the complaint, but it would appear certain preocedures can be substantiated (heat stress assessment), these animals were loaded illegally.
Nicky

Hi again all,
Yabby, you seem to be intent on patronizing everyone who does not agree with you. Everyone knows how many meat employees' jobs and income have been lost through live exports and the greed of farmers, but you don't want to hear about it as long as you and your cohorts are making a fast buck.
You regard Cameron Morse and his farmers' rag "Countryman" as intelligent because he and it follow your line of thinking. The notion that farmers support the country'e economy is simply absurd when it accounts for only 3% of GDP - yet they cost the taxpayer - who has no choice in the matter - huge amounts in handouts while they cry poor at every opportunity. You are just fortunate that so many politicians are farmers. The number of lost jobs specific to NSW is irrelevant, it is the lost jobs - and therefore skills base - nationwide that matters. And you mustn't have been reading up on the new IR laws very well; the government couldn't have made things worse for the average worker than they are right now.
It is the fault of the farmers - people like you who send the jobs overseas - that the meat processing industry lacks capacity, so don't cry crocodile tears over it now, it's too much too late.
Am I the female contributor to whom you gave credit? Talk about damned with faint praise! I don't drive an imported car, either. I drive a "made in Australia" one.
Nite all (and hang in there, holyshadow!)
Nicky

I am hearing a lot of anti farmer sentiment on these welfare threads.

I get the feeling that no matter what we do, until all animal farming is stopped and we stop 'crying poor mouth' you wont be happy anyway. That sort of attitude just builds barriers.

Nicky "hang in there holyshadow" what ?? ... Is that the sort of poster you would prefer to have on this thread? Have they actually contributed anything but spiteful comments?

Pale - you are posting on another thread, why wont you explain your 'creek fed' system to us? Or is it another example of the solutions you lot come up with - no real substance.

Nicky “everyone knows” is not an answer lol. I simply pointed out the myth
of your claim. Fact is that the sheep industry shrunk by 40%, because it
could not earn people a living, so they did something else. Don’t blame
job losses in NSW on the live trade, when its in fact a myth.

“Fast buck” in farming? Nicky do you know anything at all about farming? :)

Here is a website, created especially for people like you, to inform them
a little better: http://www.liveexportcare.com/index.html

You might not care about farmers, but many people do in fact care about
The 1.8 billion $ and 13’000 jobs that the live trade generates.

The average worker is on record wages right now Nicky, they have never
had it so good, unlike the average farmer.

The meat industry in WA lacks capacity, as it was never there in the first
place. The Govt only lifted its monopoly on lamb exports in 2000. Fact is
that even now, when WA farmers sell sheep for local processing, they
receive substantially less then ES farmers. Making a living to feed your
family is not greed Nicky. Fact is, if city slickers are so hopeless in what
they do, that they cannot pay us anything close to world prices for
our livestock, the best thing we can do is put them on a boat and sail
them out of here. Farmers deserve to make a living too.

BTW, in WA we tend to paddle our own canoe. Drought aid is mostly
paid to NSW etc, not WA, so you can leave WA out of that debate.

Yes there was a problem with 2% or so of the cattle sent to Israel, yes
its being investigated, as it should and as is the process.

No credit to you Nicky, sorry, it was on the slippery slope thread.

I have to agree with Yabby's last post. NO, I am not pro live export but what he is saying is plain fact.

I live in the New England, reknowned sheep farming area but more and more farmers are giving up on sheep and converting to cattle simply because they cant make a living out of it, nothing to do with live exports. Ewes are worth 5 - 10 dollars at the moment at the saleyards for the domestic market even here. Who made the comment about 'shame for the sake of an extra $20'? Looks a little different when you put it in perspective. Be honest .. what would you accept if it meant your income? $5 or $25 per head? Or would you dare accept the 'hand outs' you all condemn so loudly?

People are prepared to pay twice as much for their 'latte' than a lamb chop. We have this mentality that our food should be cheap. Pay the farmer what he deserves and things may be a little different. Yabby is right - greed has nothing to do with it, just making a meager living in most cases.

Another issue that gets up my nose is the lack of thought to the welfare of farm animals in this country. How easy would it be for animal welfare groups to monitor problems on their own doorstep and once again, put things in perspective. Horrendous things happen here at saleyards and the like. I have called the RSPCA myself because I witnesses an atrocious act of cruelty to a bobby calve. They did nothing. I was prepared to stand up in court and give my account.

I am definately not saying that this makes what happens on ships OK, I would like to see some balance in your arguements instead of making out that everything will be all comfy and cosey for animals if they stay in this country instead of being exported. Australians are no saints either when it comes to animal welfare.