Hey Yabby
I'll just send this little insight to you for now:-

29 November 2006 - Cattle-rearing generates more global warming greenhouse gases, as measured in CO2 equivalent, than transportation, and smarter production methods, including improved animal diets to reduce enteric fermentation and consequent methane emissions, are urgently needed, according to a new United Nations report released today.

"Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today's most serious environmental problems," senior UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) official Henning Steinfeld said. "Urgent action is required to remedy the situation."

Cattle-rearing is also a major source of land and water degradation,
according to the FAO report, Livestock's Long Shadow-Environmental Issues and Options, of which Mr. Steinfeld is the senior author".

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=20772&Cr=global&Cr1=environment

Not farming kangaroos because of the "Skippy factor" is what we "animal libbers" describe as "speciesism" - like why are some animals fortunate enough to be under the table (dogs/cats) and others on it on plates? RSPCA Australia recently told a caller that it has no objection to the frming of dogs and cats for food "provided it is done humanely". The caller rang about Australia exporting greyhounds to Korea.

For the record, we "animal libbers" do not really regard the RSPCA as much of an "animal welfare" organization. It's too easy to put a few statements on a website, then basically ignore them.

Nicky

Nicky, I remind you that herbivores have been farting on this planet
for a long time :) Its us humans that have grown from 1.5 billion
to 6.5 billion in a hundred years. Coal, our major problem, does
not power vehicles usually.

Herbivores have been on plates for eons, its part of natures way.
If they wern't they would die of starvation, as has been shown in
island experiments. Dogs and cats are predator species, just like
we are, so have larger brains, they need them. Herbivores don't.

So your little poochy poo dimkins, is actually related to wolves!
No wonder given half a chance, little poochy poo turns into a
livestock killer, much to the surprise of the owners.

I know you don't like the RSPCA, but I still think they do alot
of good. You animal libbers are like the fundies, all arguing
amongst each other about which version of the holy prophesy is
really the correct one

I think that you cannot deny, that if somebody like me labels
somebody like you extremist, because of your inability to be a little
more objective, that is not unreasonable of me

Hey Yabby
I think you would find that the indigenous Australians would certanly describe those of European heritage as "toxic to the environment". The article in fact IS a litle to do with stocking densities as you have said. Feedlots, and other intensive methods (like the "shedded sheep" - those who sre kept in sheds for "superfine wool", a bit like intensive piggeries) are obviously significantly responsible for the degradation and other environmental issues we are (or more to the point, should be) dealing with sooner rather than later. It's about the "footprint" we are leaving on the planet for our children and their children to have to deal with (although the next step would be to take over another planet and trash that as well).
The human species, using such (intensive) methods, do so with a greed motive - cram as many animals into these "farms" as possible, in as unnatural conditions as possible, just to get the extra last dollar out of them. Saleyards and feedlots I have seen are atrocities, and if you put dogs and cats into those conditions, you might get a bit of a slap on the wrist.
But these are sheep, cattle and pigs, and there are CoPs, so they really don't matter.
Even if the Deben Prima and whatever its stablemate is to be are the QEII re-incarnated, the animals sent on them will still face appalling cruelty in destination countries. As for Australia making a difference to animal welfare in these countries, film footage was exposed in 2001, 2003 and 2006 showing clearly that they are not having much success at it. That's one of the industry's more fatuous arguments it drags out each time it comes under pressure.
I imagine that anyone who doesn't agree with YOUR extreme point of view WOULD, in your estimation, be an extremist.
You should read about the "Five Freedoms" developed by the Brambell Committee in the UK - it's at the RSPCA national website.
Nite nite,
Nicky

Superfine wool is not grown in sheds Nicky - Sharlee, coated, ultrafine wool is. Whatever, it is another example of what us humans will do to animals when we discover that we can manipulate their diet and living conditions to produce a product of higher value (or sometimes in the wool industry - just for the prestige)

I do agree with you that intensive farming is based on greed and in my opinion lazy farming.

There is way way more to land degradation than grazing animals. We actually need animals in the mix to keep the eco system going. Over cultivation of the land, land clearing, the advent of chemical farming and mono cropping are to blame for the problems we see today. Thats just a simplified version, but there is so much more involved. The point? You cant blame animal farming for all those problems, you have to understand the much bigger picture.

I will venture to add that even without animal farming, it wouldnt change. They would still use the same systems to grow your vegies :) Actually, I wonder how vegetarians will survive as we discover more about NPK farming, GM foods, new pesticides. The fruit and vegetables we eat these days have around half the nutrition that it did 50 or so years ago. And toxic residues? Dont worry! they are within the acceptable limits (does anyone know what that is?)

Nicky, given that you won’t even apply the five freedoms to farmers,
clearly you don’t practise what you preach lol

Now look at those five freedoms and Aussie extensive farming comes
closer to fulfilling them then farming nearly anywhere else!

I happen to agree with you about sheep in sheds, but we have 100 million
sheep in this country. How many handfuls of them live in those sheds?

Saying that all feedlots are bad is nonsense. In times of drought,
its better for the animals and better for environment, to have animals
in feedlots. BTW cattle and sheep don’t spend their lives in feedlots,
they simply spend a short time there, big difference!

Nicky sheep are not dogs or cats. Don’t try and compare them.
Go and get some real experience working with sheep, then you will
understand the difference.

Australia is making a difference in the ME, I gather its around
3 million a year, payed by farmers. What are you doing to change
things there?

The point is we farmers will never fulfil the fantasies of those lettuce
leaf chomping dreamers, who believe that life is all about tippytoeing
through the tulips, with butterflies fluttering by.

Human footprints? Yup, that’s the problem. 80 million a year more
on the planet. If the Aussie population was wiped out tomorrow,
it would be replaced in 90 days. 7 million new cars on China’s
roads each year, another power station opening every 10 days or so. People
roaring around in Lear Jets and Ferraris. Cities with huge industrial
complexes pumping out every conceivable piece of rubbish you
could dream of.

So what does Nicky do? She starts preaching to a bunch of Aussie
farmers, about a subject like sheep, about which she seemingly knows
nothing. Perhaps you need a bit of meat in your diet to get that
brain functioning properly :)

"We actually need animals in the mix to keep the eco system going. Over cultivation of the land, land clearing, the advent of chemical farming and mono cropping are to blame for the problems we see today."

Very good point indeed PF! Outsiders often don't realise how the
Aussie pasture-crop rotation works with nature, rather then
against her. Natural animal poo as fertiliser, rather then the
bagged stuff, nitrogen from legumes rather then factories and oil,
break in disease cycles etc.

Perhaps Nicky would prefer all crops. The result would be one
amazing chemical soup. Herbicides, pesticides, fungicides, some
crops in Europe are sprayed 10-15 times during their growth.

Next thing you have herbicide resistance, so you need more other
herbicides and GM to deal with that, on one amazing slippery slope.

Perhaps that is what Nicky really dreams about as the best system :)

As she points out, those naughty herbivores belching and farting
are really the evil ones on this planet.