Good evening all
Dear me, since I've been away briefly, things have got a bit over the top, haven't they? Doesn't anyone realize yet that Yabby really doesn't have too many clues about what he's talking about, and seeks to mask that by sending everyone up? I agree, let's all not take stuff so personally. Yabby, hang in there and some day, someone MAY come around to your way of thinking, but it's unlikely on this thread. Your posts do have value, but can be very patronizing upon occasion.
Antje, sincere apologies for not responding sooner. Totally snowed under with work at present, and I am currently writing some involved submissions as well. In order to agree to take on a project of the scale discussed, I think I would really need to see some solid physical evidence from McGauran/the Federal government that they would even look at it. Speaking of sucking up, that is exactly what they (McGauran and his mates) do with LiveCorp and the rest of this morally bankrupt industry. Beats me why - too many politicians are farmers with live export interests, I think, and they have just raised the bar significanrly on the declaration of political donations... do the maths, guys.
Meanwhile; shall we all cool it a little and bring this back to a reasoned debate? Yabby, I shall mind my manners if you will.
Nite all,
Nicky.

Sheesh, I go and get some work done and come back to 6 pages
of comments! HS, I certainly did not forget anything. Any real
commercial farmers would have a weekly copy of the market report.
Mine for Victoria is the Weekly Times, dated 22-11. Its a farming
paper in Victoria, to which I subscribe.

Ok so the truth is slowly coming out. Alleged farmer cannot answer
why somebody would do in $ to fatten sheep for the live trade, when
the carcass trade for those sheep would pay far more. He used to
run merinos, but could not get "a shearer" Ok, so we have ourselves a "hobby farmer" :)

Yup, WH are great for hobby farmers. When they run merinos, the
poor old sheep are often covered in lice, die from flystrike and
they often don't have a clue, nor the facilities to look after them.
Cruelty right under our noses, right here in Australia, on hobby
farms! My point is don't be so arrogant about the ME, look in
some of our own backyards, what human ignorance right here can
do to animals. One of these "new" farmers tried to buy some sheep
from me recently. In his first year, a quarter of his flock had
died of flystrike. I refused to sell him any.

Benny the farmer, I remind you that most animal libber groups are
made up of veggies who dislike meat eaters and who know very little
about farm livestock. Sheep are not like their pet poodles!

If you knew about farming, you would know that most farmers use
sheep cuffs, to tie sheep's legs, chuck them on the ute and cart the
odd one around. Yet city slicker veggies are horrified when this
happens in the ME. Yup, plenty of sheep get their throats cut in
country areas, for meat. No stun guns.

Did you read the link I posted for you, about Cameron Morse's trip
on the Becrux? Are you aware of the changes that were implemented
with the 2005 reforms to exports and standards?

Nicky, interesting that you should go around and measure the length
of sheeps wool, to see if its a bit long, when so many animal welfare
problems exist right here in Australia, right under our noses,
lots of it on hobby farms. A bit pedantic perhaps?

BTW, I hope that you run with my suggestion, as I think it will
make a large difference in the Middle East. To achieve things there,
it pays to use religion.

Bernie the hobby farmer, live sheep ships are floating feedlots, animals gain weight and
conditions are far better then most land based feedlots. Do you
now want to have feedlots banned?

Thousands of WA farmers support the trade, but they rely on more
accurate sources for information, then a bunch of veggies with
the donation plate stretched out.

Thousands of real commercial farmers in WA, who have families to
raise and a real living to make, depend on the live trade.
You are going to need some pretty solid evidence, to take away
their livelyhoods. Nobody has provided that yet. Yes the trade
used to have some cowboys in it and things were bad, the same
applies to brothels and gambling joints in Aus and many other things.
The point is, large changes have been made, the old crapola rehashed
by the veggie groups is exactly that, old and out of date.

Yes I will point out rubbish, when rubbish is posted on OLO, in particular the animal welfare threads, which seem to attract all
sorts of fanatics with their little agenda. That is what OLO is
for after all. Antje, shoot the messenger, I really don't care lol.

Nicky
Thank You For Your Reply.
Yes of course you may have a look. You would be working with some lawyers but I am afraid you would be doing most of the work. [Hence the offer] One of them has family background in plant ownerships. Can you please supply me with a address for them to write to.
Here is the web page with an email address so you can contact us.
I dont want to put Georges private email address up on here>
http://www.livexports.com/

Again Thank You and I look forward to hearing from you as soon as possibly. We require to get this organised after several hold ups due to ill health.
I was wondering Nicky if you would like to take this thread over - just for a week until the other is organised.
I am sure you would be too busy then for a while to post until its finished. As I said you would be most welcome to attend the meetings with us[all travelling and expenses paid of course]

I think I already know your location and your attendance would be welcome. There are some things I can not post here Nicky I trust you understand so please email me.

Yabby
Yes I want feed lots banned. Yup
replaced with Free Range and creek fed only.
Do you know the difference between feed lots and creek fed Yabby.?
No the farmers is not Benny either. The last thing the live exporters want Yabby is you going on a forum being darn right rude to farmers.
Livecourpe and live exporters bend over backwards to 'try be seen'. as the polite concerned like the Government and bagging farmers doesnt come into the deal.
I speak pretty often with some live exporters yabby including the AWB guys.
Some of them read some of your posts after I informed them of my thread and they are absolutly horrified.

I have asked you this question before pale but you refused to answer. Now that you have brought it up again, can you explain 'creek fed' for us?

Hi everyone
People Against Live Exports, I'm hopelessly over-committed already until mid-December. I live in NSW, and I'll give you the address after I've had a look at the web link.
Yabby - I read the fairytale of Cameron Morse's luxury cruise on the "Becrux" (note, not the "Al Kuwait", or the "Bader III"), and his little trip to a sanitized slaughterhouse. Average, as fairytales go, I guess.
I don't think it is being overly pedantic to measure the wool on sheep being loaded, even if I were to do so (it is really not difficult to estimate, in the cases I have seen); the point is that these people cannot even comply with their OWN ALES (Australian Standards for the Export of Livestock) if they cannot a) have their sheep shorn as they are required to be, b) not transport horned and unhorned animals together, c) only load healthy animals, d) keep them in compliant feedlots, and e) use ships with crews who CAN look after live animals (so that incidents like that on the "Maysora" recently do not arise) - the list is endless. The problem is that they are not accountable to anyone, even after two IRG reviews and the Keniry Reciew - from each of which the government and the exporters selected the recommendations they thought they could be bothered compling with.
Feedlots? I agree (on land or on ships). What is wrong with letting these animals, whose miserable lives are short enough as it is, exercise natural behaviours for the short time they have? God knows they suffer enough at the hands of farmers (PF and those like him/her excluded). Yabby, think about it, and go down to Portland or Fremantle and watch some ships being loaded If they let you in - they can't risk just anyone seeing exactly what happens.
Nicky