Antje, PF has asked you before to explain your holy grail of creek
fed, but you never have. Perhaps the cattle industry, with over a
million head in feedlots at anyone time, which you seem to want to
close down, would be highly interested too!

Antje, I have no association with live exporters, farmer groups,
AWB, or any other association you care to mention. But I live in
a community and am surrounded by friends and associates whose families depend on the live trade for their dinner. We are not
just playing Disneyland here, for feelgood solutions, to suit
a few veggies. I will argue my points in a rational way, based on
the evidence. Raise rational points if you have them, but you can't
dig dirt on me, because I am not tied up with anyone, simply
express my opinions, which is what OLO is after all, all about.
So female bitchy ways won't work with me, sorry.

Nicky, lets face it, we could not put you on a boat as an impartial
observer, as you are clearly not impartial! Cameron Morse is an
intelligent journalist, with a good reputation, who reported on the
trip as he saw it. After all the doomy gloomy claims by various
veggie groups, we now have a more impartial person reporting on
what he saw. Are you pissed off that he is not as biased as you are?

I remind you that the sheep industry is in fact a free range industry. Yes, some sheep eventually spend a couple of weeks on
a boat and gain weight. What makes you think that their lives were
so miserable, living freerange on a farm?

Fact is that there are no alternate solutions in WA for these sheep,
no meatworks to handle them, no processors who would pay farmers
a reasonable price for them. They would need to be shot or carted
across Australia for slaughter. Sorry, but that is far worse then
any floating feedlot!

Yes you are being pedantic, you have a bee in your bonnet:) Clearly
you are not aware of much cruelty and misery happening to animals
right here in Aus, take a look around those hobby farms, take a look
at those city slickers locking their neurotic dogs in houses all day,
etc. etc. Sheep on hobby farms, with millions of lice chewing away
at them, day after day, or dying slowly as a million maggots bore
into their flesh and you fuss about a few extra mm of wool on
a shipped live sheep. Are those really your priorities ?

With Antje or Wendy I could invent an excuse, but you seem like
an intelligent lady, just totally out of touch with farm animals.
Perhaps that is your excuse.

If you want to close the live trade, close all feedlots. Then
tell me how far you get.

Nicky
Thank You I will look forward to receiving your address. I need to get the info to you before Georges offices closes for the season.
this must be ready well before elections.

Yabby You know very well we are not Veggie' as you term it. Not that there is a nything wrong with people who do not eat meat.

creek fed is a term used by cattle farmers which can be applied to any stock.

Put in its most simply form it invloved hard feeding only when required but in a far more natural enviroment for the animals.

It is adopted still by co ops supplies.
Later when I have more time I will go into more detail.
Yabby I promise I will get back later.
We have some of your buddies from ME arriving and will be on a very tight shedule Mean time I will leave you in the hands of Nicky
Try to be good.
regards
Antj

"Put in its most simply form it invloved hard feeding only when required but in a far more natural enviroment for the animals.

It is adopted still by co ops supplies"

Maybe you need to put it in even more simpler terms antje, I have no idea what you are talking about. But, if you are not here to explain I will be happy to give my interpretation :)

Hi again all
Yabby, I'm sorry, but you really cannot describe Cameron Morse as "impartial" (not really sure that "intelligent" describes him too well either - "cunning" springs to mind).
He is a farming journo who gets paid to tell farmers what they want to hear - in this instance, he went on a trip on what is probably the only half-decent livestock transporter, and saw one facility where (by his standards) slaughter procedures were "acceptable". Do you think they would have let him see, for example, Bassetin, under normal operations? I don't think so.
As I recall, it was not (for him, at least) a multi-port departure or destination either (as was the case with the recent "Maysora" disaster).
The "cowboys" you described earlier are most certainly still in the industry; two of them are facing charges in February this year over the "Al Kuwait" voyage of 2003, and nothing of significance has changed. The Standards exist, but no-one monitors them, no-one sees the tragedies unless they are simply impossible to hide, and when there is exposure, the right "noises" are made, time and time again, that "we will fix it". The community is still waiting. Mortality reports are well and truly protected by the government. A total of seven have been made public. As for the farmers who depend on this trade to "feed their families", well - shame on them for doing so. While they have done the grab for the bigger dollar, tens of thousands of meat processors have lost the opportunity of income to feed THEIR families, as abattoirs have shut down, along with the regional towns they supported (I can name several in NSW, just foe starters). Farmers crying poor doesn't do it for me, I'm afraid,
BTW, eating vegetables and choosing not to eat meat has never been proven to affect mental acuity either, so be less hasty to accuse us (that is, everyone who doesn't agree with you)of being "unbalanced".You have actually attested to that yourself - thank you. Animal cruelty in this country? Absolutely right.
Nite all,
Nicky

Nicky, Cameron is certainly impartial compared to you lol. Read his
paper, plenty of questioning and criticism goes on, as it should it any
professional paper. It was about time that somebody showed that there
are quite good boats out there, with reasonable meatworks at the other
end, not all just doom and gloom claimed by animal libbers.

Plenty of vets, AQIS inspectors etc involved in the whole process
too. How does loading at Fremantle differ from loading at any saleyard?
You girls just seem to have a bee in your bonnet about live exports!
Exporters are in fact very nervous about what they do, with another
animal libber camera around every corner, watching every move they
make, even measuring their wool! Sounds like obsessed to me!

How many jobs were lost in NSW? 75% of the 4 million sheep exported
come from WA. That leaves a million from NSW, Vic, SA, mostly
from the latter two. It takes 400 people to process a million sheep.
Did NSW lose 100? Perhaps less. Fact is the sheep industry has massively
reduced in the last 20 years, because farmers were going broke running
them, due to being paid little more then fertiliser prices for things like
mutton etc. Union greed in the meat industry played its share in the
industry’s demise. Sensible farmers switched to crops, where what they
produce can largely bypass greedy city slickers.

All these claims about jobs, made by people who often drive imported
cars, wear imported clothing etc. A little hypocritical don’t you think?

Mortality results for every shipment are kept. 1% is quite reasonable,
as anyone who has worked with sheep would know. Have you ever
worked with sheep Nicky? Have you spent a few days in the yards,
to understand how their behaviour varies to those of your dogs?
Yes, there will be some losses, as the merino in particular missed
out when brains were handed out, that is half the problem.