Speaking of arrogance and judgements, Yabby, what makes you think I live in a city, or that a country survives on export income alone? I think farming/agriculture contributes only about 3% to GDP (Gross Domestic Product) from the last report I read. In what way do farmers here "stack up" better than those in NZ, or the EU? Mulesing is banned in the UK for the batbaric procedure it undoubtedly is, as are sow stalls, just as a couple of examples. Six sheep with scabby mouth is only what has been REPORTED, and we do not see a great deal of honesty, accountability or transparency from this industry which is totally self-regulating. Do you really not care at all what happens to these animals "once you have put them on a boat"? THAT is what people (and not just those in cities) abhor about those involved in the live export industry; their total insensitivity towards the animals from whom they "earn" their income. It looks like we're never going to come close to agreeing on this one.
Nicky

Umm Nicky, just to inform you, a country that does not pay its bills
needs to borrow from foreign banks to pay them. To explain it to
you on your level, just try ignoring payment of your credit card bills for a few months and tell me how you go...

Farmers here stack up quite easily. Compare our farmgate prices
with those of EU, US or NZ farmers, AU farmers are more then competitive. Our problem is getting products from the farmgate to
the wharf. All those city slicker invented rules, to suit their
own self interest, is the problem. In global terms, frankly you
are bloody hopeless!

Australian farmers are the only ones bankrolling better conditions
for animals in the ME. Its making a real difference. How much
money was spent by Aus animal libber groups on ME animal welfare?
Clearly nothing, they are too busy arguing amongst themselves on
the internet. No taxpayer money sorry, read the MLA budget.

Six sheep had scabby mouth on the Israel shipment. What evidence
do you have that it was any different?

Hello Everybody.

Nicky [Thanks]. Its good to hear from holly and celivia as well. You too Yabbie. Have you seen these http://www.livexports.com/afic.html
http://www.livexports.com/queen.html
You may find the "eye witness" link interesting
http://www.livexports.com/eyewitness.html

If you want to stop, live animals exports you have to deal with the people who are buying them alive. We have to offer both them and the Australian farmers a better deal. Pale has already done a great deal of leg work to kick this off but has received huge oppostion from AA AL Voiceless. We are very frustrated by the lack of interest to captilise on that by everybody.' Meaning RSPCA, AVA National, Animals Australia Voiceless. It would be fair to say ninety percent of farmer have never asked the relavant questions.
No Yabby Shame on Australia to support such a cruel trade. According to Peter Mc Gaurans advisor Anne McDonald who flew to the Gold Coast for meeting a few months ago >its $20.00 dollars a head difference Yabby. My god surely Australia is not such a desperate country that we have to sacrifice these animals to go through so much for a lousey twenty dollars difference. Make it $1000.00 dollars if you like. There is your shame. You said on the other thread nobody had put up a alternative. Thats is not true Yabby. This was put up to Senator Bartlett and all Senators at his enquiry into animal welfare. Now before you start it was presented by the Muslim leaders themselves and! there is considerable interest from overseas. The reason I started this thread was to look into why as you said Andrew has not worked on this and groups such as Animals Australia vioceless etc.
Here it is everyone so if you could look at it Yabby and tell me whats is wrong with it because you have never once acknowledged it.
I am angry with Andrew Yabby because as you said you have not seen him come up with any alternatives yet he had this handed to him on a plate.
http://www.halakindmeats.com/submissions.html

Ok, you want my honest opinion, I printed out your 5 page submission
over lunch and read it. Quite frankly it sounds like a heap
of gobbldygook to me and I don't blame anyone for ignoring it.

What do you expect anyone to make of it? If you guys have some
fantasies of free range farms, great, go out and make it happen
if you can find supporters.

I just don't see how your document has much to do with the live sheep
trade or with the reality of the meat industry in WA.

Sorry, I'm saying it as I read it, so shoot the messenger :)

Nicky
Dont upset yourself too much with our old Yabbs. Some days the worms effect him more than others. He has in the past actually written some good letters to rurual Press and others with ideas of opening more plants in WA and involving the farmers as share holders.
I think thats the way you had in mind wasnt it Yabby?
So let me get this straight Yabby. You suggested PF write her book and - Go for it- towards assisting others to get into free Range Pork farming , but you dont think it can be done with any other animal of farmer. huh?
I am sure Dr Ali and Tom the x Federal leader of AMIEU and the overseas Governments might live with your goobleygook. [Whatever that is.] The Minister for ag doesnt thinks the idea is interesting but we need some input from others.
Jerusalem October 27th, 2003 the Israeli Supreme court issued today an "order nisi' requiring the ministry of Agriculture and other State authorities to give reason within 60 days why the imports live animals from Australia should not stop,uless a long series of substantive defaults were fixed and relevant regulations are issued and abundant photographic evidence provided. The Supreme Cort judges were especially annoyed by the fact no welfare concerns were noted from Australia.
The fact is everybody Australia is so far from anywhere else only an evil cruel mind would consider sending animals on such a long trip for an extra twenty or even a hundred dollars.
Now the farmers are aware of the non exsisting animal welfare kin other countries it really is up to them to take steps to find alternatives. Any farmer who is not interested to help find alternatives and sends a nimals alive overseas deserves what ever Nicky dishes out and more.

Your not a live Animal expoter Yabby I know that much from speaking with you for some time now.

I thought you might help PF with your idea.
Goodnight Antj

Hi all
I've just read the submission now, and can't help wondering if there is some sort of business plan prepared that attaches to it. I'm a bit mystified about the inclusion of all the US stuff and feeding animals other animal by-products, since the practice is illegal here. As a submission alone, that much of it is, I think, irrelevant. So what was it that you expected Andrew (Bartlett?) to do with it exactly?
As a submission in relation to the National Animal Welfare Bill, it really doesn't address any part of the Bill itself or the Explanatory Memoranda either. In order for them to consider it in relation to the Bill, it needed to look at the different sections and comment as appropriate.
It might be worth noting too - the Senate Committee includes AT LEAST two politicians with farming interests, one of whom boasts at length about her involvement in live exports (in Hansard, if you're ever given to reading it; it's pretty deadly stuff mostly) - Jeannie Ferris. Sorry - those are just my late night thoughts:)
Goodnight everyone
Nicky