*You lot would make a good little Honours project for a Psych student*

CJ, you have hit the nail on the head - congratulations!

Morgan

As I know you are reading this- I just wanted to that anything I said at the time was 'no different' to what they are saying themselves!
I just said it first.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/wireless/story/0,22282,2702-24309732,00.html

Its hard enough to try to get something done without all these personal comments. TBO I am sick to death of "everybody" fighting and argueing.
While all this goes on its the animals that suffer!

I would like to go back and address a comment I made to the girls a few posts back.
The reason I said it was unhelpful to call the Chinese names was because you will always have people trying to turn that against you.

Yabby said
*One
minute you and Dickie preach about the evils of farming and making
a profit from livestock, next minute PF is ok after all, despite
being a farmer, generating a profit from livestock.*

Yabby

I think it is very much to their credit they are listening to PF.
You should encourage that- dont you think.?

If we could have more animal welfare minded people involved with good farmers that would be the best outcome for farmer and animal.

We have a wonderful friend and member of pale who is a retired Judge from US and a white witch:)

My point is all of us have ways of handling the barbric cruelty we see inflicted on our most innocent- our animals.

Has anybody contacted WSPA or PETA about the lambs being tossed to the lions.

I was lisenting to Elders recording today while waiting on the line. a Their advertsing of themselves as world wide Animal Welfare leaders was # .

Anyway I thought the high profile Elders might help stop the lambs being tossed to lions.

Lets face it it wouldnt do their reputation any harm.

How about a sheep farmer writing and requesting their help.

Would you consider that Yabby?

Do you think Elders would write to the Zoo if the public asked?

I know they dont give a toss but perbhaps they may see it as good PR.

These practices in China would not be isolated to one zoo, just as the fur and meat markets are not isolated. I have sent the information now to both WSPA and PETA via their websites. I think both would probably be aware of all this but it doesn't hurt to reinforce it.

I think a psychologist - or more specifically a psychiatrist - would be interested in the pathology that drives the proponents of animal cruelty. For those who do not know the distinction, psychology is the study of the mind and psychiatry is the study of the diseased mind. There have been numerous studies into, for example, the parallels between animal and human abuse.

I have not condemned all farmers (evidenced by my respect for PF and her achievements); only those who are gratuitously cruel, those being (most specifically) intensive chicken, battery hen and pig farmers and those who breed animals for the live export trade in the full knowledge of the fate to which they are sending them in the name of a few more dollars. I might add to that farmers who mutilate their "production" animals without pain relief, but not their cats or dogs (or do they?)

I don't know how many more ways I can say that. How clear and simple does it need to be in order that it is not beyond the intellectual capacity of those whose only response to animal welfare concerns is cheap insults?

Nicky

dickie
If your still around Hugh is the chair person for WSPA.

Apart from that there is nothing more than I can say regarding China. We have no control there and have posted a few suggestions- such as asking sea world and RSPCA WSPA to address them regarding their zoos.

I will reply to a comment made by Yabby a few threads up however regarding the MLA in Australia.

Yabby Regardless of your claims that everybody is crazy or dreaming when they pass comment on MLA this remains a fact. Here is somthing on just one of the industries involved.
http://www.kangaroo-protection-coalition.com/kangaroos-hoser.html


To say they are not dishonest you would have to be very naive.( Perhaps you are for all i know)
Now Yabby that doesnt mean either that every person working at MLA are dodgey either.

You have always said- Ah Gertrude You dont know what you are talking about- dream on. I point out to you if you have ever read the web page encouraging Aussie farmers you would have seen two inderpendant lawyers both of which come from meat industry backgrounds. As well the X President of the AMIEU and people in charge of Halal meat accreditations.

So are they all mad, crazy as well Yabby.?


"Questions to David Palmer Managing Director of MLA by Brad Bellinger"

We read in the MLA Annual Report that $81,779 was paid to Ernst and Young for their NLIS forensic investigation into the Farm Online Rort. At the time we were told that we could see this Report in the matter, when can we see it?

Answer: The MLA has met the corporation guidelines into the investigation into the Poll Rort and you cannot believe everything you read.

Question to David Palmer by Graeme Acton

Could the MLA provide details of the amount of levy money given to private companies for joint venture projects etc?

Answer: ‘Commercial –in- Confidence’ prevents us from doing so.

This is outragous Yabby its as simple as that.

Apart from Bronwyn, has everyone on this thread gone completely bonkers?

Yabby: paints picture of sheep gamboling happily in meadows before being crammed nose to arse on export ships.

CJ Morgan, or should that be Darth Morgan? Have you gone completely over to the dark side? Please explain your question asking whether the animal welfare activists on this thread are mothers. Just what is your point? Inquiring minds want to know.

Both Yabby and CJ – whether more women than men support a cause is entirely moot. Or are you suggesting that if more women are concerned then the issue is somehow ‘less important’? Inquiring minds want clarification on this also.

PALE
I have a life outside of OLO and can’t be expected to respond immediately to your every request.

Nicky and Dickie – I don’t think you are racist, BUT, choice of words could be a little better. There are many activist groups in China, such as:

China Small Animal Protection Association:
“Chinese animal rights activists welcomed a proposed European Union ban on imports of dog and cat fur, saying Tuesday it would pressure the Beijing government to enact better legal protections for animals, while the government denied torture and cruelty are widespread”

http://bigcatnews.blogspot.com/2006/11/chinas-animal-rights-activists-welcome.html

Shanghai Animal Protection Association:
“Six volunteers from the Shanghai Animal Protection Association confronted cat dealers in Jiaxing, Zhejiang Province, and spent a day and a night trying to rescue about 1,500 cats.”

http://www.chinaherald.net/2008/09/shanghai-animal-right-activists-save.html

For the record, I am not a vegan, I believe animals raised for human use should be treated as humanely as possible, that the entire animal should be utilised: meat, hide etc. That breeding animals for only their fur is wasteful and abhorrent. And that as many men as women care about animal welfare, but none of them are called ‘Yabby’.

*I have not condemned all farmers (evidenced by my respect for PF and her achievements)*

Ah, I just love this touchy-feely, make it up as you go along
philosophy stuff :) Nicky, you forget that you have a long posting
history.

It seems that according to you, its now ok for PF to send her piglets
to market and be eaten, but if I send my lambs to market, "the
poor dears have hardly had a life"

If PF hogties a sheep and carts it home for treatment, presumably
that is ok too, but if I hogtie a sheep or the Arabs hogtie a
sheep, we must be evil!

Just a few days ago we heard about the evils of using the word
"livestock".

The list goes on. Fact is Nicky, you blow with the wind and depending
on which thread that you are posting on and who you are trying to
bluff this particular time.

Go back in your history and see how many times you have preached
about the evils of livestock farming for profit. All livestock
farmers were included, for as you well know, this is what Singer
and Animal liberation are all about. Are you now going to deny
that you support the philosophies of animal liberation?

Perhaps to blow with the wind is what they taught you to do in
Political Science, which is your speciality. Politicians do it
all the time.

The only sheep bred specifically for the live trade would be some
Damaras and a few Awassis. Farmers sell to a market, which is
often decided 5 minutes before they sell. Anyone is free to buy
the rest of those livestock and slaughter them here. You clearly
don't even understand basic agricultural market function.