And there's more ...

http://www.idausa.org/news/currentnews/nr_070212a.html

Investigations of the Chinese fur industry revealed dogs and cats packed into wire cages, stacked by the thousands onto trucks, and transported to be killed for their pelts. Investigators documented employees on fur farms throwing cages from the tops of trucks to the ground - then killing the animals by hanging, strangulation or electrocution. Investigators also witnessed dogs, cats and other animals being skinned alive and then thrown onto a pile of other processed animals. Some of them continued to live, their eyes blinking and their hearts visibly beating inside their exposed ribs for up to ten minutes.

A prior investigation of fur farms in China showed workers attempting to stun foxes and raccoon dogs by slamming them against the ground or bashing their heads with clubs. Such unreliable methods also left many animals fully conscious after the fur was ripped from their bodies.

More than half of the fur products imported into the U.S. are from China, a country where there are no animal welfare regulations. "Flaunting the skin from a tortured animal's back is a blatant disrespect for life", says IDA Campaign Coordinator Melissa Gonzalez. "People must take personal responsibility by refusing to buy fur and fur trim, thus ending the demand for cheap fur goods".

And the ones they eat ...
http://www.onevoice-ear.org/english/campaigns/china/dog_report.html

"...Mr Chu stabbed it in the chest with the knife. If he was aiming for its heart, he missed. The tragic dog screamed...

For several agonising minutes it stood in shock, pathetically licking the wound as its blood pooled beneath it yet, terribly, still wagging its tail at our team. Mr Chu stabbed it again. Its howls of pain and puzzlement were unbearable. He dragged it from the cage, blood dripping, tail still wag­ging, pushed it over and stabbed it yet again, twisting in the knife as it howled even more. Then the son dragged the dog to the pot and thrust it into the boiling water, still twitching with life"

Still think "education" is the key?

Nicky

Education is always the key in the longer term Nicky, but suit
yourself. Keep calling them barbarians and savages and see how
much cooperation that you get.

We would only know how much the RSPCA do, if there was no RSPCA.
In WA the Govt hardly contributes to the organisation, so given
this fact, we can really complain about the job that they do,
for nobody else is doing it. At least they focus on animal welfare
and not on animal liberation. They do, even use the word "livestock"
shock, horror.

I have said nowhere that anything in China amuses me, what I have
said is that the NicknDick naive approach to life amuses me.
Its all feelgood stuff, great for comfort for yourself, but clearly
not very effective.

I have said before that if the animal welfare lobby wants to bring
about change in the third world, it might be a good idea to get
animal welfare included in the huge amount of money that Australia
gives away each year, in development aid projects.

But keep kidding yourself, abusing others and signing your petitions.
See how far you get

Dickie

Here is an example of work in the past carried out by RSPCA. “Pls note pale is responding to comments- not diverting”.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/07/15/2304043.htm

I do understand your frustration but we need to support RSPCA and yes demand it’s even better! It’s a big job with little staff.

Here’s another link

http://blog1.rspcasa.asn.au/2007/08/28/rspca-members-be-aware/

Getting back to China, I was waiting for a reponse from Fractelle + interested to hear what she thought of the suggestion.

Yabby said
*I have said before that if the animal welfare lobby wants to bring
About change in the third world*

Once again, I have to give full marks to Yabby.. I have also said the same thing and suggested a bill of rights for Animal Welfare supported and presented by the 'right people'to be put to the UN long ago.

Getting back to China.

Its “horrific” dogs and cats and packed in cages and killed for fur- It’s unthinkable to us and makes everybody outraged.

Being outraged is a normal. There is only one way to fix it. That IS education.

Has anybody done research into the suppliers of these toys bags clothing etc?

Is it possible ,we could donate to them machinery to manufacture fake fur, and toss in a few "new contracts from major suppliers" who have already banned fur.

There would be a ton of money floating around that would be available.

Why Havent we done that already?

I am one hundred percent sure the RSPCA would support such a move.
Any such proposal is going to be far more readily accepted from the Chinese Government if it’s presented by an international organization such as RSPCA.

I do not see China on the other hand listening too much to others.

They are not a country to be bullied and although personally do agree with boycotting products from China- they no doubt would view it in a slightly different manner.

On the other hand the other way if RSPCA would support such a proposal...

"Once again, I have to give full marks to Yabby." (Pale)

Only the very naive would give "full marks" to the heartless Yabby, Pale, for his motives are never altruistic.

And again he advocates "educating" a nation. Just like the Meat and Livestock apostles he boasts about who were dispatched to the Middle East (compliments of taxpayers) to "educate" and preach their evil gospel to their partners in cruelty who, despite the "conversion" we were assured of, were again exposed by Animals Australia as sadistic animal abusers.

"The RSPCA are about the only ones that I've seen, who employ people
with some relevant skills."

Another totally fallacious statement from Yabby who clearly regards all posters on this thread as total idiots.

The RSPCA, no doubt does the best they can under the circumstances. On a national scale, they have in excess of 75 full-time inspectors and some 75 part-time inspectors.

However in the years 2006-2007, the RSPCA received 42,000 complaints which saw 352 prosecutions culminating in a puny 236 convictions for the entire nation.

The figures above are not cause for celebration PALE so your link revealing the RSPCA's disparaging remarks about other welfare groups simply mitigates their credibility.

May I also remind the unconscionable Yabby that it was the NSW Young Lawyers Animal Rights Committee (not the RSPCA) who wrote to Senator Chris Ellison, then Minister for Customs & Justice in 2003 calling for a ban on all products made from dog and cat fur. The request was due to the Humane Society Australia's (not the RSPCA) release of a video inside China exposing the abject cruelty committed on these defenceless victims.

If it were not for dozens of animal welfare groups in Australia and beyond, bringing these atrocities to our attention, we would not be debating this issue.

During the last three days, I have visited furniture stores, pet product suppliers and departmental stores - counter to counter. I have spoken to dozens of employers and employees advising them of China's vile treatment of animals. They were indeed receptive and genuinely shocked.

Knowledge is power!

http://animalsaviors.org/haveyoursay.html

If the Australian government takes no notice of the RSPCA, any notion that anyone in China (all billions of them) would do so is simply absurd. PALE, can it be that you do not know of the Universal Declaration for Animal Rights?

http://www.uncaged.co.uk/declarat.htm

The wretched sadists of China are as receptive to the concept of animal welfare as the bloodthirsty butchers of the Middle East, and it is the international organizations like PETA and WSPA, and the Swiss animal protection group who are in there addressing matters in China. Let's not forget that Australia exports animals to China, too.

As for that reference to RSPCA SA - I hope everyone read the reply comments; and also Mark Parnall (Greens SA) speeches to Parliament that exposed RSPCA for just what it is, an organization controlled by the intensive pig farmers, despite its claims to the contrary. Takes us all back to "A Blind Eye", doesn't it, with the sweetheart deal between RSPCA NSW and Pace Farms, and the live exporters on the State Council of RSPCA WA (one with a cruelty conviction for testing 1080 poison on dogs). In Tasmania, the CEO had to quit over one lie too many to its greatest benefactor, who then withdrew millions of dollars in funding. Victoria has got Wirthless.

Just what we need to be "leading" animal welfare in this country really. But it's good to see Bidda Jones come out with her excellent keynote address to the Animal Welfare Conference on the Gold Coast (which PALE appears to have missed. I wonder why?).

Nicky

Dickie


I don’t agree the RSPCA are the only ones to have good people. What I can tell you is the QLD CEO spent many hours meeting with people from other groups.




He explained with the patience of a saint ‘over and over’ again what he ‘ could’ and ‘couldn’t’ take to court-(i.e. Evidence gained illegally can not be used in court-.) To present such a case would mean they would wear the costs and it would be kicked out – (not to mention a blast from the court)
RSPCA can not act with evidence gained by tress pass etc. That is not their fault- It’s the law!.
Would they like more powers- QLD would that’s for sure. I can’t speak for others but since RSPCA QLD Animal rescue has been aired phones are even busier.

That is a good thing, to bring about public awareness and educate the public.

RSPCA remarks were not disparaging at all. You are well aware of your little army of girls trying to take over from RSPCA. After all you lot have been trailing pale for four years now. That is why you come into OLO forum in the first place – All of you.- isn’t it.

Stop RSPCA stop PALE That’s the” orders” You are so blind Dickie. Why would anybody want to STOP ‘any group’ working to help animals?

“Think about it.” There are too few now.

. If you want my honest opinion NOBODY has done enough for Animals in the years- not RSPCA- Not Animals Australia and Not PETA. Not PALE



You all had twenty years to make contact with Muslim Leaders and farmers. Even the X Federal leader of the AMIEU said nobody other than pale had EVER held an appointment with him other than Pale and RSPCA QLD

*Young Lawyers Animal Rights*
Pease remember who suggested - Young Lawyers Animal Rights! before you come in here having a go at me. Oh didn’t they tell you? Why am I not surprised.