Antje, to answer your questions, yes far more jobs are created then
lost, especially in regional areas. A sheep worth 78$ rather
then 40$, brings in far more money. Crunch the rest of your numbers
yourself.

The Govt does not subsidise the industry. MLA levies, which the
Govt provides a 1 for 1 funding for, as with many industries,
have perhaps 2% spent on live exports, which are also levied. Govts
screw that back in taxes and charges, many times over. Farmers
pay the levies, its up to them how its spent.

Blaming one kangaroo meat scandal on the reason for the live trade
is frankly ridiculous. The Middle East buys millions of sheep from
many countries, including now China, which has more sheep then
Australia. Hajj lambs for instance, are part of their religious
practise. Others for political reasons, to provide employment
there. Others for consumer preference. Anyone who understands
marketing knows, that telling your customers what they should and
should not be doing, trying to force it by regulation, leads to
ultimate disaster.

Antje are you aware of the changes to the live trade recently, with
the new system, the scrapping of old boats, space regulation, welfare
regulation etc? It seems not. The Carleton videos are years old
now and out of date to what is happening out there.

Cameron Morse showed, that with new boats, improved procedures etc,
sheep actually gained weight! Yup they are floating feedlots. Feedlots are
not banned in Australia. In fact the whole cattle industry depends on them, 1 million cattle in feedlots in Australia.
If you agree with them or not is another question.

How do you know that sheep suffer from travel sickness? What is
your experience with sheep? Don't you think that vets know more
then you do?

If the Middles East still has problems handling animals, somebody
needs to teach them to improve things. Aus is the only country doing
that, certainly none of you animal lib groups are.

Scout, one of the most interesting things about the live export
debate that has really hit me, is the gap between city and
country here. Not one of the people who I have debated this topic
with, from Peta activists, to now the OLO girls club, know much
about sheep, their farming, management or behaviour. Relating
your personal emotional engulfment or that for your pet poodle,
has little to do with sheep. On that one, you girls are as bad
as Peta, real countrywomen are far more rational about the topic.

You have demonstrated no alternatives at all. Just some fruitloop
schemes which don't work in a market economy.

No industry has its animals as free outdoors as the sheep industry.
Its not the pig or chicken industry. Yet 80% of consumers buy
battery eggs. If you target those consumers, hey fine, consumers
should choose, I agree.

My problem with you lot remains the same. In the life of a sheep,
which is footloose and free for virtually all its life, compared
to what you guys normally eat, a couple of weeks on a boat is
neither here nor there. If its gaining weight and the vets conclude
that its not suffering, what qualifications do you have, to claim
it is suffering?

I am surrounded by families who suffer real problems of surviving
the cost price squeeze and it matters to them if they are paid
20$ or 60$ for their wethers. I am aware of how much that matters,
clearly you arn't.

Until you girls can separate emotion from reason and debate these
issues on a rational basis, using accurate and up to date data,
why should anyone take notice of you? The political world certainly
won't

Yabby - you are making a few of assumptions. Pigfarmer, also sheep grazier, Professional Woolclasser AND female! I know a thing or two about sheep - the gap isn't quite as wide as you think. Put me down as a 'countrywoman' against live exports. 'Footloose' life for sheep?? Who are you trying to kid.

Wendy, now we may be getting somewhere...'stop eating feedlot intensive meat'..that is the answer voting with our consumer dollar...at least that way we get them to listen ..and only withdrawal of money will have the effect you want ...ie :action.

MLA are funded 50 50 by the Public purse and the industry
96% of the public want live exports banned.

So is livecorp. All 4 to 6 staff.

Amazing so few people can be responsible for millions of animals

A front to keep it distance from the Government

Bit embarrassing a Directer of liveCorp charged three times for animal cruelty in regards to live exports before! being a livecorp Director.

Live exporters are corporate rats that betray the farmers

Stop using! the Australian farmers as an excuse.

It was more than just one ship load of Roo meat too.
The truth is the Australian farmers, [whats left of them] are just that. Farmers.
Farmers never asked the relevant questions and still dont.


The middle man and the low life corp guys who have pushed the little Australian farmer pretty much out of the industry.

Of Course! The farmers want to sell their stock. They have families to feed like anyone.

Its $20.00 not $38.00.

Surely Australia is not so desperate and such a poor country it must make an extra twenty bucks out of such a cruel disgusting trade.

You may not Like Rodger Fletcher but he is a example of how to make a lot of money doing it here.

Do you know how Packer got his supply?
Got friendly with the farmers and provided plenty of country jobs in abattoirs
THEN closed them leaving people without work mortgages and diverted to live exports for the trade dollar.

Feed lots are disgustingly cruel and you speak of floating feed lots like they were ok. Feed lots Will! be banned too.

Nobody is blaming the Farmers. Its the Corperate lot who buy votes and live off famers misery. After having said that there are many farmers that insist on their animal only going for domestic use.
A Few Good men
Your certainly not one of them.
According to you Australia is too stupid to grow and slaughter its own meat.
What utter crap.

Its not Rocket Science

I agree with Yabby and I agree with pig farmer, but I disagree with you both, as your all up the wrong tree. Get rid of feral animals and if you have to be barbaric, harvest natives. Much better for the environment and better for your health and the animals.

Some time you all have to see that your continuing use of past its use by date approaches and methods, is not succeeding. It's increasingly uneconomic, destroying the environment, and the health of this country.

I don't understand the double standards people have. If your going to eat meat, then eat the best and most environmental prudent meat. But all your talking about is enslaved economic animals, not animal welfare. What about the welfare of our native animals, or is it only feral animals and beliefs that count.

Don't any of you have a soul beyond greed, animal welfare means animals, not barbaric human economics.

Change the thread to, “Human economic outcomes, via the most comfortable, lowest cost barbarity, towards animals and the environment”. At least it would be an honest thread then and you wouldn't have to hear from lone souls like me who care about all animals, not just the economic ones.