Scout Great Site.

Hello Rex.
You'r right about slaughtering here its far better for jobs and animals.
However it sounds like it was a Halal Abattoir before the law was passed making them use stun guns.
The bolt which you describe is our Method and I think kinder. Which ever method, its miles in front of live exports.
Scout and Celivia said it in a nut shell.
We must open more abattoirs in Australia.
We are responsible for what happens to Australian Animals.
Yabby I dont agree with you and to be honest after reading your posts I am some what confused by you.
It seems although you told the lady you would be happy to advise her on the WA area you spend all your efforts working against her. Efforts to create more employment back in Australia and improve Animal Welfare should be encouraged not bagged.
I agree with the others that we need the Church to find a backbone and Howard to replace exports over a period of time.ASAP
I know its hard for people to work to open more abattoirs because they cop it from the extreme anti meat eating groups.
Celivia I noticed you posted Animals Australia web site for people to look at the pictures.
May I just say that they will not support building more abattoirs because of their vegetarin members. Thats all very nice but we need people who care enough about animals and jobs for this country to open more abattoirs. Otherwise live exports will never stop. Its common sense.
I have been looking for a sensible group for a long time to come up with alternatives and I have just joined PALE through reading your posts.
Considering we are looking for alternatives and trying to work towards fixing some of the damage done by extreme groups may I suggest people go to this site.
Thanks Scout Celivia and everybody. I am so happy I came across this information.
Here is the best site to refer everybody to.
http://www.livexports.com
Scout I will help you. Lets start a support the farmers group? perhaps?

Scout
I have been reading your posts and the others for the last four or five days and I must say my heads full.
I got info and answers to questions from emailing Wendy at HKM and as I said I joined.

Scout I noticed the link and your post on the the animal welfare forum leading people here to yours is gone.
Do you know anything about it? It would be a shame for others to miss your forum.
I am going to write to Steve Fielding about his lack of interest in Animal welfare and I will keep you posted. From what I have learnt so far it seems there are lots of people interested overseas to do business direct with Australian farmers but farmers seem scared to break out into new waters. I hope that can all change and we can find a way of reaching them. The Government need a swift kick up the bum leaving this to us , however I am sure we will get there. I would like to say to Yabbie that Elders are the largest exporters of Live Animals in Australia. Everybody knows that. I will be posting things from PALE as well as my own comments. I am as I said very happy to have come across your forum Scout and keep up the good work
Its fantasic. Well off to bed full of hopeful dreams as to what we can do to rally the churches and I might Add The AVA. I now understand a bit more about how these people get away with such treatement of Animals. To think they are vets! makes me SO angry.
I pray our farmers get interested in this idea of HKM.
I am going to print out the free stickers on the PALE web page and put them out each time I go In the car. If anybody has any ideas I would love to share.
I will post more as I am able on the forum. Anybody wanting to help> Please do
God Bless All

Hi Everybody
I just wanted to ask you all to look at the petition.
http://consciousevolution.com/onshu/view_signatures.php

Please Sign here>
http://consciousevolution.com/onshu/Petition.php

Others to adding link would be a great help.
PALE > Is a small group of people.
We are in conjunction with RSPCA QLD. We are blessed to have Mark Townend .WE MUST CONFRONT THE CHURCHES ONCE AND FOR ALL. IF ITS ANYBODIES JOB IT IS THEIRS TO STAND UP AGAINST CRUELTY TO GODS CREATURES.

While I am personally involved to assist farmers I cant do this alone.

The Animals desperatly need your help.
We need to change our image to the public and the farmers.

I am always harping about groups protesting about people eating meat, its counter productive.
Its s seen as an attack on our farmers, the counties backbone.
We need the farmers onside, to work together and open more abattoirs.

The churches need a head on confrontation about their disgusting lack of action and leadership.
It should be said several individual Churches have made an effort to do something, but not many.
We need to urgently address feed lots. Feed lots CAN be replaced by what they term creek fed.

Basically these are free range animals however they are also hand fed.

Post some links to Free Range Farmers of pigs , poultry. and please email these farmers who are doing the right thing and introduce yourself.
They would love to hear from you.

Best example of poulty farmer is .
Phil Or Free Ranger Here>

www.freeranger.com.au

Take a moment to look at these farmers.

Its important for those who care to see these sites as it can become very distressing looking at footage of cruelty if you care about animals.

This will give you a uplifted feeling and hope.
Together if everybody stands up to the churches and The Government we CAN have all our farms this good.
http://www.melandapark.com.au/organics.htm

http://www.halakindmeats.com
We are the only people to encourage more abattoirs opening and of course we are under attack from the extreme groups. Thats the price we must pay to help animals. Help farmers to help Animals

Wendy, I agree that it is just ridiculous and very close-minded the way the extreme animal liberalists are handling the situation. Often with extremists, they have tunnel vision.

I find it saddening that these groups have a lot of potential power to make positive changes for the animals, but that nothing positive happens because of their inflexible views and useless actions. I fully agree that these groups prevent progress in the right direction. These groups could be such an asset to animals and farmers if only…

Now, OK, if we just accept that the organisations of these groups are blind and not willing to open their eyes a bit wider, then there may not be any further use in discussing this with them at this moment.

But is there a way to possibly get through to the supporters of these groups and go around the organisation bodies? If the supporters can be made to see some sense, then they may be able to influence these animal rights groups' organisators.
I have no idea how, but someone else might know?

The whole pigfarm and Amanda Vanstone thing is sad but nevertheless is a good opportunity to make people aware and has grabbed some of the media’s attention.
Is there a way at all for your groups to use that media attention and play in on that so the media will direct some of that attention to present to the public and support the view of the Free Range Farmers in a campaign-kind of way?
Posted by Celivia, Tuesday, 15 August 2006 9:44:19 A

Well I've just spent the day up in Dowerin, a field day where
thousands of farmers meet each year. I spent a bit of time
on the live trade issue too, including time with some of the
exporters and chatting to fellow farmers.

Cameron Morses's trip has been put on the net by livetrade,
but I think its an abridged version, IIRC it was longer.

http://www.livecorp.com.au/index1.cfm?category=0&objectID=565

What Wellard told me was that they were dubious about taking
him up on his request, as he clearly stated that he would write
what he found, not what they wanted, before he went onboard.

Taryn, my role is to tell anyone who is interested, what the
reality is of the situation in WA. It seems that in the East,
you guys don't have a clue as to what is happening over here,
a few thousand miles away. Do you want me to lie, so that you
all feel better? Elders might play a large role over in your
side of the world, but in the WA live sheep trade, they hardly get
a mention. There are three companies in the live trade. Elders
have one crappy old boat which they have patched up and spent
millions on, to bring it up to standard. Wellard and Emmanuels
dominate the trade. Fares, which was backed by Elders, went
broke.

What I would like to see is some positive ideas used, to promote
the wellbeing of livestock. The Koran clearly states that Muslims
should be kind to animals and Muslims care about Islam. What
about some waterproof, long lasting signs made up, by the thousand,
and hung up in every meatworks in the Middle East, reminding Muslims
of what the Koran says about being kind to animals. If the idea
was put to MLA, they might well fund it.

From what I understand of Halal meat production, the methods of slaughter are supposed to be humane. That's fine. I would just like to see it performed PRIOR to shipment to Muslim countries. It is the entire live transport issue that is of concern to myself and not just outside of Australia, either. Wide, brown land that it is, live transport should not cover the vast distances here that it does.

Yabby - how some some more links where we can find out how the situation in WA really is?

TarynW

Loving your informative posts - I guess the demise of abbatoirs is part of the entire deskilling of tradespeople. We no longer have the apprenticeships that we used to and we are looking to import trained people.

I wonder if we can use this as a sort of exchange program.

For example, Muslim abbatoir workers could come to Australia and work here and Aussies could go to train in ME countries? I am for the complete phasing out of live trade, but a good start would be a bit of friendly cooperation between countries. I used ME as an example, partly because it is topical, Yabby is focused on trade there, but this exchange could be used in Asia as well.

Maybe foreign meat production companies could be encourage to invest in Aussie abbatoirs?

I am just throwing around ideas at the moment.

As for the hardline vegetarians, well just like fundy religious they cannot convert all to their way of life, but they could be encouraged to put their money where their mouth is (so to speak) and invest in humane practices for raising and transporting livestock.