Im thinking that Alchemists thinking makes a lot of sense..any lovers of even our own domestic pets realise how loving and intelligent they are..it is no accident that my goegeous cat and my 5 guinea pigs all talk to us as a family....

I recently invested $300.00 for an operation on my pet guinea pig bought for a mere $10.00 at the store...such was her contribution as a loving family memeber i couldnt even give a single thought to putting her down..we lost her anyway and we were devastsated..animal have emotional issues and rights, the same as humans.Steve Irwin was well aware of this and campaigned it religiuosly.

My point being, ALCH. is right...if we are to be concerned about the protection of the rights of animals on every level we must get down to the grass roots of it and stop buying and consuming this product 'harvested'(cruelly slaughtered in other words and yes IT IS cruel).

This is the only way exporters and producers will sit up and take notice..these groups that talk about inhumane practices etc have existed for many years...groups such as this one for example and as I see it it has done zip to make any impact on the issue at hand.

To be serious we have to put our action were our mouth is and stop buying meat..I know it goes against all the posts on here but its the only thing that will stop it.

The focus for fundraising could be to eduacate people on the practices and cruelty(like cigerrette ads do now on packets)used to provide meat for market and make people the ordinary consumer feel sick to their stomach at what theyre 'meat buying dollar' is supporting.

I think the commonsense element of this arguement will only come to light when either Scout, Wendy or Celivia finally supports it.

Its kind of looking that the girls are banding together here a bit and not letting any other realistic and useful suggestions thru ..that is a great pity because we are all fighting for the welfare of animals?.

Hello everybody.
Good debate happening.

Oz girl, late Steve Irwin had celebrity connection one person could dream of. He also was befriended with Live animal exporters like Murdoch, Packer and naturally befriended with John Howard.
Steve Irwin donated as much money on conserving Wildlife as the Government spent on destroying it.
Steve Irwin is a legend in his own right
As Elton John says in his Song
“Candle in the Wind”.
…… Your candle burnt out long before
Your legend ever did……………

Even so Steve Irwin was a famous celebrity all over the world he was only one person against everybody else.
Yes, he kept his enemies close and rightfully so...

If we want to make a change in this world we need to work together as a team and tackle the Government, churches and every politician right left and centre.

Yabby,
I am sure you know that the live exports is doing extremely well because of the number of politician who are actively involved in exporting live animals.
That`s conflict of interest and doing what is right for our Nation keeping the jobs here.
That`s why Senator Andrew Bartlett couldn`t stop the reopening of the Live Exports.
On the other hand Andrew Bartlett is mixing with the extreme Animal Welfare groups and is not seen as a very serious Politician.
Without jobs, no income, no self esteem, boredom arises and violence (be it domestic or otherwise) and the crime rate are on the rise.

Scout and Celivia

I have been working with native wildlife most of my life.
Last year I gave up my life in NSW, to help PALE in QLD. PALE is the only Group that has a workable plan and answers to help all animals as well as all Australians and Indigenous citizens alike.
It`s your forums girls but if you don`t mind me saying try and built a group under PALE and spread your wings from there.
We need to get a group going in favor of free range farmers.

1. OZGIRL

Celivia and I are not in competition - this is a joint effort. The topic of animal welfare is very broad. in fact I think I should've just called this 'Live export - good or bad' or something like that.

All the stats mean is that Celivia and I have proved that animal welfare is of concern to many, many people.

2. ALCHEMIST

While I enjoy your digs at religion, I do not enjoy dogma from any direction. I do not tell people what to eat. To order people not to eat meat is as unrealistic as it is unworkable. What we are trying to achieve is greater awareness of the treatment of animals raised for consumption, eliminate live export and create a more humane society. Simple stuff really ;-)

Special kudos to:

BENNY
FREERANGER
REX

and the indefatigable WENDY (I'll be joining PALE ASAP)

Cheers all.

Scout not meant as an insult.

Antje...yes I completely agree with your comments about Steve ..he was a legend and will never be forgotten, not in my lifetime anyway...he was loved the world over and by children ,adults and world leaders..and yes he did keep his enemies close and for good reason..
It has been suggested that when he befriended the likes of Packer etc he was turning his back on live animal exports, I didnt believe tha for a second..I trusted his motives and dedication to his cause implicitly.

Free range farming sounds like a wonderful idea and should be explored further.

But I reiterate everyone , and why its being glaringly ignored is beyond me, as to live export cruelty and all other forms of barbaric animal practices, withholding the consumer dollar will that support their businesses WILL WORK.

Does noone think that fundraising for the Advertising campaign to highlight the barbaric practices used to supply meat to the consumer is a good idea?Much like they do on the front of cigerette packs now?

Scout, Celivia, Wendy?

Ozgirl

One of the many brilliant suggestions by Celivia was to question Supermarkets as to the origin of all egg products: cake mix etc - freerange or not. Blackbanning shops is a good method, for example I only by meat from a butchers which specialises in freerange meat. I don't buy meat from supermarkets at all, not even the stuff that is marked freerange, 'cos I don't really trust big business, whereas my butcher I know and talk to. I know where he sources his meat.

I am trying to gather as many methods to support humane animal farming as much as possible.

I can see how a more humane approach will create more jobs (more small business, more local abbatoirs, specialised product (greater interest in purchasing freerange) and so on. We don't have to beat big business - just move on without 'em.

AntjeStruthmann

Welcome to the discussion - thank you for your endorsement of PALE. It is this kind of exchange that I was hoping for - by starting this discussion. Clearly there is a lot more I can do. I am working through the best way to proceed that works for me and is 'doable'.

:0)

Antje, lives exports is an industry, because it makes rational sense
to have it as an industry, based on rational criteria.

Firstly its not farmers jobs to subsidise meatworkers, who don't
even exist, thats why the 457 imports. Based on your rational,
ban foreign cars, 75% which are made overseas, to create jobs here.
Based on those odds, 75% of you drive foreign made cars :)

Today we live in a market economy, thats the reality. Govt's don't
build meatworks. Hell, in WA it seems they won't even pick up the
phone to wellcome anyone who does, judging by the T&R saga.
If Govts started building meatworks, Fletcher would cut their
balls off lol.

The judgement whether live exports are cruel or not is not going
to be made by a bunch of housewives watching historical footage
of some years ago, but by the latest information of the trade today,
as it stands, by qualified people such as vets and others.

There are lots of animal welfare issues that need addressing in
Australia, I agree with you. I simply don't believe that live
exports is one of them, there are far bigger ones. They just
never got featured on 60 minutes some years ago, thats all