Thank you, freeranger (our eggspert). That’s great that your draft is ready- good work! This is exactly what we need- hope it will soon be accepted!

The Alchemist,
I agree with you that it would be better for animals if people stopped eating meat. But like Wendy, I can’t see that happening. There have been extreme animal activist groups for ages now and it would have been ideal if the lives of animals actually improved because of their actions- but not much at all has happened in favour of animals.

It’s understandable that you care so much about animals that you don’t want anything to do with things that would hurt or kill them.
I am an atheist as well and I once was a vegetarian for about nine or ten years. My opinion very much matched yours.

But from experience I have figured that if people who care for animals are refusing to start ‘somewhere’ to improve the conditions for animals because they want nothing to do with the killing etc, then unfortunately nothing positive at all will happen for them.

Insisting that everybody must become a vegan or vegetarian is, unfortunately, unrealistic.
People won’t stop eating meat or produce.

So I felt that I had to make a choice:
Either I do nothing to improve conditions for animals but keep insisting everyone will become vegans- and the animals will keep suffering because nobody does anything practical to improve their living conditions and slaughtering methods.

Or… start somewhere in the middle- we look at the animals’ cruel living conditions and try to improve on that, step by step. Not ideal because it takes a long time, but if the other option is to just tell people to become vegetarians, then nothing changes. That’s not what I want- I’d rather see things slowly improve than nothing happening at all.

If interested, you can check what I and others said on the OLO called: Legal abuse of animals; I have to beconcise here. http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=4594

This thread so far has amassed 140. posts...is that some kind of record...and Celivias thread trailing only by a few...great work. you 3.

I can't understand the reluctance to acknowledge the depth of feelings animals have, nor how their individual personality's are effected when they realise they're going to slaughter. Not accepting animals communicate on levels we aren't capable of properly understanding, doesn't give you the right to enslave, torture and slaughter them for self gluttony.

Considering the huge amount of scientific and medical evidence showing all lifestyle disease is caused by the consumption of meat and dairy products, yet you condone the continuing barbarity against them. Even though it causes you illness and health deterioration.

That's the same as monotheists preaching love and caring, whilst bombing and destroying. I can understand that form of thinking, but it's rather primitive an unevolved, considering our understanding of diet and lifestyle.

I'm quite happy for people to continue to go about their lives in the disgusting way they do regarding animals, I've lived on farms and worked in abattoirs when young, so I'm fully aware of the humane way they go about preparing your barbaric indulgences.

If you make a choice, you either choose to improve your approach to life or return to the state you wished to be rid of. Not very responsible nor rational going backwards. I tried to develop a balance, but realised that all I was doing was fooling myself. Once you sit down and get to know animals, you'll begin to understand how they talk to each other, how much they care and how sensitive they are.

More cows, more sheep, more environmental devastation, but that doesn't matter does it. Build more abattoirs,and turn them into more comfortable gas chambers, typical followers of Yahweh.

You either live your principles, or you just puff up about them. Compromising when it come to the slaughter of intelligent and peaceful beings, seems a weak cop out to me, unless you believe in god, then any fantasy's possible.

Celivia.
Your your ideas are good.
Perhaps somebody might look into Tv adds.
Already enquired locally, 250 per week ,for a TV add 30 hits each month.
Adds should be asking for funds to go to court and having a go publicly at Church Leaders.

1 Court> People Verses the Queens Council. Course of action to be discussed off line.
lawyers say we can get changes To the ACT.
We can get world media attention and Shame the Government and our Church leaders.

2 AT The Same Time We Need everybody! To support the HKM proposal and push the Government To adopt it as policy.

3 We need to PUBLICLY PUSH THE AVA To support it also.
Church leaders would be good Labour SHOULD.

4 We need Farmers Free Range Support groups to encourage farmers like the Free Ranger.

5 Jobs For Australians Groups!
If somebody wishes to I could set up a trust account through RSPCA QLD for the court case and TV adds/

Please Note This project is ONLY supported by RSPCA QLD[ One Of The FEW Good men!. Perhaps another time I will speak of RSPCA in general. Presently I am too busy.
ALChemist
I used to prayed for guidence to help animals. I was sent to the Islamic Leaders much to my astonishment right after the world trade.

I was alone and faced 42 Islamic Leaders[Muslims]/I was shocked by their "sincere" responce.
Sometimes in life we have to do things differently than we expected.

The old saying God Works in mysterious ways applies. Dont be bitter towards people just do what you can. I love Animals enough to kill them as quickly as possible. Anything to spare them the terrifying mentally savage trips. Yes I will build plants God willing and I will weep for each animal. But We MUST do something.
Then you may be surprised how quickly Allah blesses the Alternative meats produced from our Halal vegetable farms Why Not help Us with the Court Case?
ENFORCABLE codes of practise.
The Animals need everybody to work together.

Whatever It takes.

For The Animals.

Sweetheart. Animals are smart. They have personalitys and yep they sure know when they are going to die. I worked in enough places love to tell you that.All the crying in the world wont stop people eating meat. Been around a long time. You have been brain washed by one of these extreme groups. They remind me of a cult. I looked at this co joint proposal. Boys and I even discussed something similar. Anybody with a brain can see it is the only answer.
I loaded animals onto those ships as well. Yep cruel old me. Hate me if you want to but its not changing a thing.
Have you even thought as to another way to faze out live exports.
Nah I didnt think so. I dont know how Wendy and the others have been so patient with you. Look Love do you want people to work to make it at least kinder or dop you just want to preach from your higher moral groud offering no alternatives and rubbishing the people knocking themswelves out to find some.
It seems to me Wendy has done an awful lot of work and from what i have read so far at her own cost as well. I reckon we should support her ideas and I am up to help if anybody else isnt.
I mean lets get on with it instead of being so nice to somebody who has been nothing but bloody rude to the only dam person that I can see except for Celiva Scout and a few others to at least improve conditions fror animals.
Beleive it or not I like animal too but crying about people eating them works against them. Are you so stupid you cant see that. If you want to be taken seruiosly in life you have to present your case in a rational manner. Your not doing that. People will say ah their all crazy. Wendys saying jobs for Australians. People are going to listen to that. Wake up your very annoying and show some respect o a women who is trying.

Benny
Your right we must move on. Celivia I have pictures,great idea.

Alchemist. I have heard those words before.
Why Dont I set up a plants as an example. Read the web page its been done in WA.
Your either purposely misleading the readers or you have no idea of the costs involved.
Live exports is a huge industry and growing faster! every day. I am not Robbinson Cruso. I dont have that type of money.
The difference is I am not going to collect money from the public so they can have that warm fussy feeling.
God willing I am going to work with others to make it kinder. Thats ALL! anybody can do.

When I first! enquired about live exports in 2002 I called the Ministers office then Animals Australia.

I spoke To Glenyce who informed me live exports were too!! political!! so they did not do it.

I called each and every animal liberation in Australia, [Most are members of AA ] They said they only did small animals and speak to head office Animals Australia.

I tried for years to get them to work together.

OK the good part is because of their fear of loosing control they ended up helping with the live export issue.

Your extreme lot have a history in inner fighting worse than any political party I have ever! seen.
It to leadership of Glenyce because staff such as Lyn White are wonderful
Glencye knowledge but she needs to work with other Australian groups. This Is Australia Alchemist.
Scout and Celiva are trying for the animals so why dont you help them.
I do educate about chemicals added to the animals food but I could do with a hand.
I know what its like to walk feeling your in a tunnel with an angry empty feeling in your gut because you want to stop cruelty.
Thats why I formed PALE
The animals need every to help Alchemist. Lets make it kinder FIRST.