*As for being "efficient and "productive", that tells us with absolute clarity that sentient beings are nothing more than commodities to you.*

That tells nothing of the sort. It tells that at the end of the
day, farming has to pay its way, or you are out of farming. That
is the reality. Given that half the Australian sheep flock has
gone since the early 90s and given that every year a good
number of farmers quit, as they are sold up, or its too hard for
them, farming is marginally profitable, if that. People generally
do it as they love the lifestyle. But reality prevails, bills need
paying, banks need paying, or people are sold up. End of story.
You girls would last all of 5 minutes.

What farmers can do is benchmark themselves against others, in
other parts, in terms of value of the commodities that they produce.
In terms of cost of inputs they use, etc.

We happen to have a market economy in this country, but if the
market is corrupted and is not functioning as markets should, then
that shows in prices received or paid. Given past and present
political decisions, our meat industry market is corrupted, meaning
that WA farmers receive substantially less for their animals then
other farmers in the East and elsewhere. Farmers don't run Govts,
they are simply one cog in the economic system. If the other
other cogs aren't functioning properly, don't blame farmers.

Sheep ships come to WA for good reasons, ie some of the world's
cheapest and healthiest sheep.

You can love animals as much as you want, if you go broke, they
won't be around,and nor will your farm.
Simple as that. Reality does not
go away, when you close your eyes and wish it would.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_9662208?source=most_emailed

There you go Nicky, a bit of info as to how nature really works,
compared to how some think it works. Finally some are learning.

Yabby, as always, your largely irelevant link said nothing about nature at all. What it said that human intervention was the original source of the problem.

And your own argument reaffirms my statement that these animals are nothing more that commodities to you. As always, you failed to answer my questions too.

Dickie, I have a really powerful document I would love to be able to send you. Do you by any chance have an email address that does not identify you or your location (or you could invent a junk hotmail, gmail or yahoo one, then never check it again after this), or a mailing address?

Cheers
Nicky

*said nothing about nature at all.*

Nicky, the article said a great deal about nature, but clearly it
was over your head. Herbivores living in constant fear, is in
fact part of nature. When that was not the case, the environment
was trashed.

*are nothing more that commodities to you*

Again, the argument goes over your head once again and clearly
does not suit your agenda. Like most true believers, you only
believe the bits that you like, ingoring the rest.

Fact is that farmers have to pay their bills like anyone else,
so have to make decisions accordingly. You are the first who
has claimed that farmers should receive no subsidies. Ok, fair
enough, that means business decisions have to be made, for
farmers to survive.

If farmers are operating in corrupted markets, like in WA, or
farmers are operating in systems where Govt red tape restricts
markets, so captive markets exist, then hard decisions have to
be made.

Society is free to change those things if it chooses to.

But then your argument all along the way is that farmers should
not be farming in the first place. I can't argue with that kind
of rubbish, its rather pointless.

Fact is that my livestock have more freedoms and live far more
naturally then your dogs. So you are little more then a hypocrite
really.

Hi Nicky

Leave it with me. I shall speak to the IT man in the family tomorrow as, alas, I'm a computer illiterate.

Will return here in a day or so.

Toodle-loo.

So it's all the government's fault - still.

Perhaps you could divert your self interest to answering my questions.

1. Is battery hen farming acceptable and humane?
2. Is the way meat chickens and pigs are farmed acceptable and humane?
3. Is it acceptable for animals to be brutalized as we have seen so many times in importing countries?
4. Is keeping sheep and cattle on trucks without rest, feed or water for days, regardless of the weather conditions in this country acceptable?
5. Are the spaying/castration methods used on many/most farms on sheep. pigs and cattle humane and acceptable?

Your "livestock" do not have more freedom/a more natural life than my dogs - but you don't know that because you don't know my dogs. They were. however, anaesthetized when they were neutered, and they were not mutilated. They will certainly not be loaded onto trucks and hauled off to slaughter/live export at a time determined by me or any other member of the human species - unlike your "livestock".

Dickie - I think you can actually delete those hotmail/yahoo type email addresses when you want to. It's a great document that I'm sure you'll find interesting.

Nicky