Hi Pale...

the vese you quoted 3:64 is the very basis of 9:30 and the cursing of Christians.. or don't you realize that? (partners with Allah, i.e. Jesus is Son of God)

As for the invite.. still don't know about it.

FOXY.. you are splitting straws.

you said:
<<common but mistaken belief in the West that Islam and Islamic fundamentalism are closely connected,>>

The only other words I directly attributed to you are 'you are prejudiced' (about me) ...the rest are the implications of suggesting we are 'mistaken' about Islam and its fundamentalism.

<<BD is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, and religions differing from his own.>>
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 22 February 2008 9:20:57 AM

In saying that, you avoided confronting the issue.. which has been my point pretty much all along.

So.. again here.. you are avoiding the issue.. by attacking 'me' suggesting I put words into your mouth.. when I didn't.

In reality I,
a) Quoted you (put in first person, not third "You are" rather than "BD is")
b) listed the implications of claiming people are 'mistaken'.

So...I'm wondering when those who call me all kinds of names..(can any of you point to me calling you snide names in any seriousness? )
will actually refute the evidence?

Most of the problem I think is world view. In contrast to some of you, I do actually see the connection between 'holy book' and 'behaviour'. This threatens the cherished sentimental beliefs you have about 'religions', on which your comfort zone is based.. so.. simply solution...'use name calling and accusation' aah..that'll solve it.

Foxy made specific and dangerous allegations about The West being mistaken...

Well..I'm not sure which part of 'The West' she means, but there is no monolithic 'West' that I know of. Perhaps she means "Those in western societies who believe" Islam and Islam-ism are connected are mistaken"?.

In which case she needs to look at how they are wrong, and on what grounds.

FrankGol

You obviously ignore or pretend that the many women raped in the Cronulla district in Sydney were and are fueled by the beliefs of muftis and their followers. The ones who have been caught and charged show no remorse because the victims are 'pieces of meat'. One Muslim I met married an Australian girl. She later found out he was an illegal immigrant and had wives elsewhere. After getting her money he was off. Perfectly acceptable with his belief system and not an isolated incident. Most muslims are moderate but not the ones that imitate Mohamed.

BOAZ_David is never going to admit his prejudices, and will continue to spit out his hatred of Islam and anyone else who disagrees with him.

Intelligent OLO readers can do one of two things:

(a) ignore his rants or
(b) challenge them consistently with evidence and better arguments and expose his campaign of fear and hatred.

The first option is easiest, but he and his dopey supporters are quite capable of interpreting silence as consent.

The second option is preferred because race and religious hatred that goes unchallenged is potentially dangerous, as many have learned at great cost.

His misrepresentation of Islam through highly selective allusions from Islamic texts is of course capable of being replicated with equally highly selective allusions from the Bible - and BOAZ knows it, and engages in that practice when it suits him.

His assertions that Islam approves of child abuse, domestic violence, sexual abuse of captive women, a perpetual state of war between Allah and non-Muslims is as much a total distortion as saying the Bible allows holy wars, inquisitory torture, the burning of 'witches', polygamy and incest.

We must continue to point out the recurrent examples of breathtaking hypocrisy that litter BOAZ's posts. Here again today: anyone who finds evidence that he's wrong about Islam (even Islamic scholars) get their information from 'Western hate sites', at the very time BOAZ is drawing on and contributing to such sites.

By contrast, BOAZ claims his 'weapons are reputable Islamic scholars', ignoring any Islamic scholar, no matter how reputable. Interesting choice of word, 'weapon'.

While he spits out venomous personal attacks, he accuses others of doing the very same to him despite wearing his "industrial strength 'anti ad-hominem' chasity belt" today - and he can't see the irony of his position.

And while excoriating Islam as if it's one monolith, BOAZ is quick to point out that "there is no monolithic 'West' that I know of".

Runner, It's heartening to see you have backed off your inclusion of Cronulla as among the sites of thousands of victims of Islamic suicide bombers. Wild assertions of that type don't help your case.

All rapes are to be deplored absolutely and every rapist must be brought to justice - not just those who are Muslim or claim perversely and erroneously that Islam allows rape. I would hope you would want Catholic priests who raped innocent children brought to trial as in the case of 'Father' Gerard Ridsdale who now languishes in gaol after multiple rapes on boys and girls.

We'd all prefer it if rapists who are tried and imprisoned show remorse. But we can't control that emotion. The issue is that they committed a deplorable crime and are being made to pay for it with the full force of the law.

Perverse members of the Islamic faith may encourage or condone rape. But talk to the hundreds of former inmates of institutions run by Catholics and the Starvation Army and you'll find that Islam has no monopoly in that area.

Nor is Islam the only religion from which come bigamists or polygamists. The point is that such practices are crimes in Australia whether the perpetrator is Hindu, Methodist or atheist.

Strip away your references to Islam - or substitute another religion - the central issue is that crimes against innocent people must be vigorously pursued by the justice system. That's a better way of dealing with crime than lots of hot air about religion.

What Frank said.

Mr Boaz David,

I asked you to re-read my post on this thread. The entire post.

I wrote - "The subject of Islamic fundamentalism attracted a great deal of attention in the West after the Iranian Revolution of 1978 - 79, which deposed Iran's ruler, Mohammad REza Shah Pahlavi (1919 - 80), and established an Islamic republic - and especially after the September 11th attacks on the United States in 2001 by al-Qaeda, an international Islamist terrorist network. The spectacular nature of
these events have lent plausibility to the common but mistaken belief in the West that Islam and Islamic fundamentalism are closely connected, if not identical. In fact, however, not all Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the literal and inerrant word of God, nor do all of them believe that Islam requires strict conformity to all the religious and moral precepts in the Qur'an. More important, unlike genuine Islamic fundamentalists, Most muslims are not idealogically committed to the idea of a state and society based of Islamic religious law.

The character of Islamist movements varies greatly throughout the world. Some Islamists resort to terrorism, and some do not..."

If you don't understand the point that I'm trying to make here - then
we really are not on the same intellectual plane.

And as for my accusing you of being "prejudiced, and intolerant et cetera..." I wonder how on earth I could even think such a thing - about such a fair-minded Christian like yourself?