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The Forum > General Discussion > Is not Allowing Ukraine to join NATO the right decision?

Is not Allowing Ukraine to join NATO the right decision?

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Hey Fester,
"You have linked Macgregor many times. He regularly makes false and misleading claims which are used by Russian media."

A lot of people got it wrong.
General Mark Milley Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the highest-ranking and most senior military officer in the United States Armed Forces said if Russia went into Ukraine that Russia would prevail in 3 days, the CIA said it would be over in 1 week.
- This is why the came to the assumption that the Russian military was weak and incapable, this is why they convinced Zelensky not to negotiate and that US had their back and for 'as long as it takes'

But that assumption has been proven wrong.

They also thought they were going to destroy Russia economically.
Sanctions, Sanctions, Sanctions.
They said Russia's economy would be destroyed, that an economic crisis would lead to a political crisis and Putins ousting.

THEY ALL GOT IT HORRIBLY WRONG.
- Now they look for a way out.

It's one thing to say MacGregor got it wrong, but if you look at the bigger picture - THEY ALL GOT IT WRONG;
- And here we are...
Nearly half a million dead and half a million wounded later.

A few people here have been consistently saying I fall for Russian propaganda.
- Where the opposite is true, they fell for the western propaganda.
So I'm going to keep posting Westerners who have been trying to tell the truth the whole time...
But you lot listen to the wrong westerners;
- And thus, their message fell on deaf ears.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 15 July 2023 11:20:44 PM
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How will the war in Ukraine end? What will Russia’s strategy be?
http://www.youtube.com/live/Qglxww40pTs?feature=share
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 15 July 2023 11:21:57 PM
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Albert Einstein is often quoted as having said: "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones".

Remember that folks, Einstein was no fool.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 16 July 2023 7:28:11 AM
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Hi AC,

Macgregor has consistently made underestimations whereas western intelligence initially overestimated Russian capability. What was subsequently observed was that Russian forces were badly coordinated and organised. That has changed considerably, but the three stooges keep removing competent commanders much to Ukrainian approval.

The current objectives of the Ukrainians are electronic warfare systems (mainly jamming equipment), heavy ground equipment, and mines. If the Ukrainians can destroy the jamming equipment they can then use their drones.

Russia has a huge army and huge reserves of equipment, but its resources are not limitless. The history of warfare also suggests that industrial/technical capacity is the decider, and Russian industrial/technical capacity is dwarfed by the western nations supporting Ukraine.
Posted by Fester, Sunday, 16 July 2023 8:54:02 AM
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Lets look at the facts. Not only has Ukraine withstood
Putin's assault but it's managed to rally massive
international support and keep military aid coming.

Ukrainians have emerged as a united and widely admired
nation under the strong leadership of President Volodymyr
Zelensky.

Many Russian-speaking Ukrainians have abandoned the language
they now view as belonging to the enemy.

NATO has been revitalised. Sweden and Finland previously
neutral states now belong to NATO. The European Union has
cut oil and gas imports from Russia. And an unprecedented
barrage of sanctions has turned Russia into an international
pariah.

News media and international journalists tell us that:

Putin is waging another battle at home. He's intensifying
the country's information blockade in an effort to control
the hearts and minds of the country's own citizens.

Draconian new censorship laws are targeting any media that's
still operating outside the controls of the Kremlin and
most independent journalists have left the country. A
digital iron curtain has been re-inforced, shutting
Russia off from Western news and social media sites.

We've seen on the news how -
Authorities round up thousands in crackdowns of anti-war
protests and a culture of fear has descended on Russian
cities and towns. Typical authoritarian tactics.

However cracks are starting to appear.
Savvy internet users skirt state restrictions to access
dispatches and pictures from the frontlines. And as the
country turns towards mobilization to boost its suffering
campaign - it's struggling to contain the personal impact
that this war is having on its citizens.

The pendulum of public opinion has to slowly begin to
swing away from the Kremlin. Now that the conflict is
knocking on their door - we should start to see a shift.

Putin may be ready and willing to throw as many bodies as
it takes onto the battlefield - but will the Russian
people continue to allow him to do that?

A revitalised NATO and an unflagging Western support will help
but it is still up to both Ukraine to defeat the Russian army
and for the Russian people to protest against the war.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 16 July 2023 10:41:51 AM
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Armchair,

When I wrote "But it does show your propensity to be led down the garden path" you asserted "No I don't think so, as I told you earlier I didn't get the info from Lavrov in 2022. Alternative news sources reported on it back in 2014.
I just used Lavrov's statement in 2022 to put some backing to what I'd already heard myself years prior."

Well here's your original post where you specifically say that you can't imagine that Lavrov would lie.... http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=10081#345730

But even after I'd proven that indeed Lavrov and all the others who'd talked about this were lying, and you'd conceded that, it made no difference to your attitude. You just went on believing anything and everything you were told by one side. Strangely when I mock your attitude of believing everything the Russians say and disbelieving everything the Ukrainians say, you agree that that's what you do. Any student of history knows, not thinks but knows, that is just bonkers.

Whatismore, we won't know for years where the lies were and where the truth was. The Katyn massacre happened in 1940. The Russians blamed the Nazis, the Nazis blamed the Russians, the western allies sided with the Russians. It took 40 years to get the truth. Expect something similar here.

But if you think you understand what's going on based upon what one side is saying, you're delusional.
Posted by mhaze, Sunday, 16 July 2023 1:11:21 PM
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