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The Forum > General Discussion > Is not Allowing Ukraine to join NATO the right decision?

Is not Allowing Ukraine to join NATO the right decision?

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Hi Yuyutsu,

Australia is playing a dangerous game, as is Russia, America, Ukraine, the NATO countries, and many others. America is trying to polarise the world through coercion, economic bludgeoning and political bulling into an American controlled empire of them and us, with the objective of neutralising those that would challenge American world dominance, those specifically meaning China. Australia the ever subservient toady now has no choice other than being an American captive, doing whatever dirty work the bully so commands.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 16 July 2023 7:50:18 PM
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Dear David F.,

Yes, Buddhism is an offshoot of Hinduism and therefore its philosophy is pretty close, but varies in nuance.

I wonder why you listed only three Universal Truths where Buddhism speaks of four - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths

Since I am not an expert on Buddhism, I can only relate to your statements as they stand:

«1. Everything is impermanent and changing»

Correct. Every THING is impermanent and changing.
Our body is a thing, our relationships are a thing, our money is a thing, our health is a thing, our enjoyment is a thing, our ambitions is a thing, our reputation is a thing, etc. etc., yet WE OURSELVES are not a thing, thus we never change.

«2. Impermanence leads to suffering, making life imperfect»

In a way: the illusion of impermanence leads to the experiences of suffering and imperfection.

Suffering is experienced because being truly infinite and permanent and deep down knowing it, we cannot be satisfied while [mistakenly] experiencing ourselves as finite and imperfect.

«3. The self is not personal and unchanging.»

The words "The self" misleadingly suggest that there is something, some object, which is us. However, there is no such thing.

Indeed I am, Indeed you are, but we are not objects, we are not things, we cannot be described, we cannot be comprehended, we have no parts, we have no properties, we have no limits, we just are.

---

Dear Paul,

«Australia the ever subservient toady now has no choice other than being an American captive, doing whatever dirty work the bully so commands.»

Indeed, it is not a pleasant situation, but that is the lesser evil.

While pursuing our own conscience, we sadly happen to also contribute to corrupt American interests.

What to do? Any practical ideas?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 17 July 2023 12:34:55 AM
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Dear Yuyutsu & Paul1405'

Australia is not a major power, but we are large enough so we cannot be like Andorra and cannot isolate ourselves. The US, China and Russia are all corrupt entities, but, unfortunately, we have to attach ourselves to one of those three. I think Australia had no business getting involved in the war in Vietnam. That was a consequence of our involvement with the US. When England was a major power, Australia got involved in the Boer War as a consequence of Australia's attachment to England. Australia is too large not to be involved and too much a part of the English-speaking world for Australia not to be involved w the USA.
Posted by david f, Monday, 17 July 2023 1:22:03 AM
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1) The overwhelming cost of war should always matter.
Any country that unilaterally chooses to inflict the
horrors of war on another deserves to be met with
universal and unequivocal condemnation. To be clear -
the war in Ukraine is an unprovoked invasion by Russia.
And the actions of Russia are a clear breach of
international law and the United Nations Charter.

2) There are significant and growing ties between Australia
and Ukraine. Our countries share a strong belief in the
importance of freedom and democracy and there are over 40,000
Australians of Ukrainian descent.

3) What is happening in Ukraine has broader strategic
significance that reaches well beyond the borders of that
country alone. Both Ukraine and Australia - like many small and
medium-sized nations rely upon the rules-based international
order for security and stability.

If might is right, than our countries simply will not prosper
and our place in the world becomes significantly more precious.
Russia's actions clearly challenge the very foundations of
this system.

The direct challenge that Russia's attempted invasion of Ukraine
poses for the rule-based international order means that what is
happening in Ukraine is not just someone else's problem. This is
a moment that needs to unite us all.

(Taken from the following link which explains why what is happening
in Ukraine should matter to every Australian:

http://humanrights.gov.au/about/news/opinions/what-happening-ukraine-should-matter-every-australian
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 17 July 2023 10:25:52 AM
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Hi Fester,
"What was subsequently observed was that Russian forces were badly coordinated and organised."

Yes, there is a little bit of truth to that, but it's not the same story the corporate media has been selling all of you.

Firstly, Russia never sent the force it did into Kiev in order to capture the city. It sent the force it did in to force Kiev into negotiations.
- You don't sent a force of 40,000 in to capture a city of 1 million.
In what it set out to do it was successful, it did force Ukraine into negotiations.

Secondly it did not retreat from Kiev because it was becoming militarily overwhelmed.
It retreated from Kiev as a goodwill gesture in respect of those negotiations, as initial agreements had already been signed.
- At which time Boris Johnson flew to Kiev, on behalf of the US and collective West and convinced Zelensky to continue the war, and also gave him assurances, that the West would stand with him 'as long as it takes'.

Why do you think Zelensky was so peeved at the annual NATO conference in Vilnius?
Ukraine was encouraged back in 2008 to apply for NATO membership.
He couldn't even get that out of them at the recent conference.
All he got was further pledges from G7 nations, not NATO.
So much for those assurances.

He's continued this war, gotten half a million men killed and maimed and the west has hung him out to dry.
There's no more weapons, no more tanks, no more ammo, no more nothing.
What is coming is not going to change things.
He has till November then he has to negotiate, and he's gained nothing, lost so much more than what he would've gotten if he'd just negotiated last April.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 17 July 2023 11:32:15 AM
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[Continued - Fester]
Finally, the Ukrainian counter offenses last year were not so much of a success.
The great Kherson counter-offensive was a failure, but it was painted as a success after Russia itself chose to strategically withdraw, there and in Kharkiv, where the Russian withdrawl was much more of a debacle.
Russian soldiers 6 month contracts were up and many didn't renew them, they were spread thin on the ground, and stronger defensive lines had not yet been established.

Take these facts into account and the story of being 'badly coordinated and organised' is significant different than the one the media is sold all of you.

That said yes they were a somewhat badly coordinated and organised in the beginning not so much now, and finally I'd like to remind you that Russia is fighting across a 1000 klm front with hundreds of thousands of troops.

Fighting the Ukrainians but a large part of the military power of over 30 countries, the world has not seen war on this scale for a long time, and Russia has not even declared war, yet.
- It's a special military operation.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 17 July 2023 11:32:50 AM
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