Now just one more thing mhaze

Can you answer this one simple question for us all

This is just a really easy YES or NO question, it's not difficult

Please tell us YES or NO, after the Maidan in 2013/2014
Did the new government pass laws to restrict the Russian language?
Say it nice and loud in capitals so everyone can hear the truth.

Well AC that was quite the tantrum there. I guess some people don't like being made to look the fool, especially when their ego outruns their intellect.

AC wrote: "Blah-blah-blah-blah bleh-bleh-bleh-bleh-bleh"
I must admit that had me stumped. I really don't know how to respond to such withering argumentation. So very Socratic in its construct <sarc>.
I'm sure, AC, you think this passes as adult prose...but you'd be wrong.

Now to your survey. I don't know if you've noticed this, but do you realise that this was just a survey of Crimean residents? Quite what you think it has to do with Ukrainian attitudes is unclear. It'd be like survey rural Queenslanders and then 'thinking' their views are those of Australia as a whole. Dumb but very AC.

Somehow AC has convinced himself that the views of Crimeans in 2013 proves that the CIA orchestrated the revolution in the rest of Ukraine in 2014. Dumb but very AC.

Now I don't propose to go through the whole of the survey to explain it to AC, because that'd be futile. But let's just look at one aspect, of which AC makes a big deal for reasons that make no logical sense.

AC commands: "Now go to page 17
Read out the question and identify the majority, and what there (sic) preference was"

OK their preference was to remain in Ukraine. 67% wanted Crimea to remain part of Ukraine in some form. A mere 23% wanted to join Russia. This, incidentally, was an improvement from years earlier where 59% wanted to remain in Ukraine and 33% wanted to join Russia. So Crimeans were becoming more favourable to Ukraine and less enamoured of Russia (who can blame 'em).

So I don't know what AC thought he saw in that survey but it most definitely doesn't help his unresearched claims. Maybe when you throw tantrums, perspective goes out the window.

Again, to help out poor AC, this is a survey in a region that is among the most favourable to Russia. And yet even it didn't want to be reunited with the 'motherland'.

/cont

/cont

Then AC points me to the Wikipedia page on the Euromaidan revolts which doesn't even mention the USA or the CIA (or whatever other bogeyman AC conjures) as being responsible for the revolution!!

In the end, the 2014 revolution was against a government that wanted to move closer to Russia while the people wanted to move closer to Europe. Putin found the views of the people unacceptable and has sought to overturn their decision ever since. That the CIA/USA was probably involved in some way is likely true. But they didn't create the revolution and didn't 'trick' the populace into thinking they wanted to move closers to Europe. That was a genuine outcome of the people's desire for a better life. They are still fighting to protect the right to seek a better life.

AC, playing the school ma'am, demands to know: "Please tell us YES or NO, after the Maidan in 2013/2014 Did the new government pass laws to restrict the Russian language?"

OK NO. They passed laws to make Ukrainian the official language of the nation, but that didn't stop others using whatever language suited their needs, except when dealing with the bureaucracy. Lots of nations have similar laws, including your beloved Russia.

But why are you still prosecuting this. I already proved that the Russians were lying about this language issue. I already proved that you'd fallen for their lies. You already ADMITTED that you'd got the issue wrong. And now you want me to prove it all over again?

Dear mhaze,

Once again I have to admire your patience and Thank You for
setting the record straight.

"Plucking the chicken feather by feather to lesson its
squawking" is how Mussolini described his political power
in Italy in the 1920s. Putin also did not seek to grab
power in a single swoop. Like Mussolini he plucked the
feathers carefully.

We should not equate Russia with the Kremlin.
Many condemn "Russian behaviour" (myself included) and
call for sanctions on Russia when in fact we are talking
about a REGIME that has no democratic mandate from the
Russian people.

Such rhetoric is careless and a generous gift to Putin as
a "defender" of "Russian" interests. Western democracies should
make a distinction both in words and actions. Between the
nature of Russia and its unelected rulers.

What gives me a slither of hope is the anti-war protests in Russia.
They make it clear of the growing number of Russians who
reject the status quo in favour of a more democratic and more
European path

The demographic of the protest movement shows these citizens
represent the future of Russia which is a worrying trend for
the Kremlin and a hopeful one for the country.

My view of AC differs from mhaze and Foxy. I see AC as good bloke with a differing perspective of the world to me, but having many common values and aspirations. I think that all who post here care about life and the world it inhabits, else why would we bother?

As for AC failing some Socratic test, I am of the belief that Socrates seemed far more interested in understanding why people believed what they did and saw arguments more as discussions between friends and colleagues.

The irony of the war in Ukraine is that both sides believe themselves as defenders of unprovoked aggression (in this respect I refer to the hoi poloi, as I believe those in charge of Russia are amoral autocrats prosecuting a campaign of terrorism in Ukraine).

Dear Fester,

A successful amoral autocrat is one who can get people to believe he or she is not an amoral autocrat.