Issy,

You don't have to try too hard to be stupid.

When the Greens say; "That personal protection should never be regarded as a genuine reason for owning, possessing or using a firearm." It NOT related to the law as is, in fact its a statement of principle and belief, not even policy. So prattling on saying "law" is superfluous.

The hypocrites of the Shooters and Hooters party make a statement;

"We do not support “American style gun laws”

Then a couple of paragraphs later say;

"Establish family and home protection as a genuine reason to own and use a firearm and continue to support measures increasing a person’s right to self-defence."

What a bunch of Turkeys, first not to support American style gun laws, but then its policy to introduce American style gun laws.

What sort of nut jobs would want to send five year old's off to school with loaded guns....The Shooters and Hooters party that's who!

Who would train a deranged lunatic to use a gun, so he can kill his children....The SSAA that's who!

OK, Goebbels, so the Greens saying that a firearm should not be used for self defence is a statement of principle and belief, you finally got it right.

The SSAA and SFF Party do not want US style gun laws all that they want in relation to self defence is a return to pre1996 Australian law.

Back to the day when it was not a criminal offence to be prepared to protect one’s life and one’s family.
When it was not an offence to keep a cricket bat for defence.

I can see both sides here.

Paul wants guns out of the hands of crazy people who might harm other people, and those who are responible gun owners he wants to make sure that crazy people can never get them, including theft from being poorly secured or staged thefts.

That's not really unreasonable in and of itself.
(Though it probably takes a few very important seconds to take that gun from where it's properly stored)

Is Mise seems to be arguing for the right to self defense, which also means being free from prosecution if you really do need to protect yourself from some 17 year old who doesn't give a crap about anything, and who may be high on drugs and feeling bulletproof.
- And it may not be just the right to self-defense, but the right to protect a wife and kids.
If some 17year old breaks in and wants to come at you, and potentially your wife and kids, if you hit them over the head with a cricket bat, and they want to keep getting up to come at you then you need to stop them using whatever means necessary, and know that you wont find yourself in court for doing so.

In my opinion that's not really unreasonable either.

Hi Issy,

No need for the derogatory name calling you like to engage in, it only goes to weakening your argument, not that you have any argument worthy of note.

The main justification for American gun laws is "self defence", written into the American Constitution, as the Second Amendment.

“The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defence within the home and the community.”

The above is well accepted as what the Second Amendment enshrines in law as a right of the American people. The 'Old Cold Dead Hand' himself Charlton Heston of the NRA always argued that as justification for owning a gun.

The Shooters and Hooters (NSW) Party contradicts itself;

Firstly it states; "We (Shooters Party) do not support “American style gun laws” in NSW."

Then it says; "Establish family and home protection as a genuine reason to own and use a firearm and continue to support measures increasing a person’s right to self-defence."

WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT AMERICAN GUN LAWS ARE BASED ON! Say one thing then support the opposite.

BTW Under Shooters and Hooters Party 'FIREARMS' policy, there is no mention of cricket bats, its clear they are talking about guns.

Hi AC,

The trade in legal guns into the hands of criminals through the black market by the actions of Issy's mates the "Cleanskins" is well documented. 7% of legal gun owners at some stage report the theft of weapons held in their possession, an average of three per report. Often it is more than one month from the time of the alleged theft and the filing of a police report, highly suspicious to say the least. What we do know is 60 guns per week are reported stolen, with 45,000 "legal" guns unaccounted for. Issy doesn't want to admit his mates are engaged in a highly profitable illegal trade in black market guns.

Hi again AC,

In practical terms arming the populace for "self-defence" doesn't work. To be effective a loaded gun needs to be in easy reach of a responsible adult, not locked in a gun safe with the ammunition locked in another location. If its in easy reach of a responsible adult, its also in easy reach of an irresponsible adult and children. You would find far more murders and accidental killing of innocent people than the number of bad guys brought down. When a gun licence is issued there is no guarantee that, that person will always be a "fit and proper" person to hold that licence. And the types who will seek a gun licence in the first instance for 'self protection" will be people with issues to begin with, e.g a person having an issue with his neighbours, his wife, his relatives etc. The very people who shouldn't possess a firearm. I don't know what magic would be used to weed these people out.

>>Firstly it states; "We (Shooters Party) do not support “American style gun laws” in NSW."<<

It seems a little ambiguous to me.
If you go by the constitution there aren't supposed to be any restrictions at all.
Some places in the US do have guns laws, like Chicago for example, but ironically these places have the worst statastics for gun crime.
- So saying they don't support gun laws could mean that they don't support the gun 'restrictions' like in Chicago, and instead want no laws relating to guns at all.
I'm not suggesting that's what is meant, but it does seem a little ambiguous based on the info you've shared.

All in all, it's a difficult problem, with arguments on both sides and no easy answer, but I'm still glad there are less guns in circulation rather than more.
FYI, I don't own any guns.
- But I did find a double barrel sawn-off shotgun in the under-bunk storage area of a caravan I stayed in when I was aged about 20, but that's another story.