“… there is some atrocious behaviour by some Muslims, this cannot and will not be excused, however, it should be noted that the behaviour in question is not institutionalised nor is it widespread…”

“Imams (or a minority thereof) trying to salvage marriages”

Keysar, the behaviour in question is the beating of wives by their husbands. It was claimed by this imam (youtube) that this “revelation” came from heaven and was revealed to Mohammad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWGA8i6scYY

How can an imam save a marriage when he tells Muslim men to beat their wives?

See a beautiful Arab lady whose face was beaten out of shape.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZY_7gzFdxU&NR=1

Perhaps Keysar does not have the latest edition of the Koran, could Polycarp lend him a copy?

Join Maryam Namazie in the “One Law for All - Campaign against Sharia law in Britain.” She is a founder member of the Council of ex-Muslims.

http://www.islam-watch.org/MNamazie/Campaign-against-Sharia-law-in-Britain.htm

http://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/

boaz, you're ample dog whether or not you have a bone.

bennie has answered you very well, but i'll make one further point. you claim that the problem with my approach is that it leaves no room for truth. and yes, i very doubt that there is a "truth" there to be determined, that the "true" christianity, or "true" islam is there to be discovered.

however, even if there is a "true" christianity, it would be the height of arrogance for a non-christian to claim to know it. similarly, it is the height of arrogance for a non-muslim to claim to know what "true" islam is.

that is what is so incredible about you. you genuinely seem to have no inkling of how insufferably arrogant you are. you are a truly astonishing piece of work.

katieo, and anyone else: i am interested to know *exactly* what the islamic women's group's claims are, and what evidence there is, either circumstantial or statistical, for their claims. to that end, i figured i'd read the report. but, i simply can't find it. if anybody can supply a reasonable link to anything other than (by their nature suspect) media reports, i'd very much appreciate it.

bushbasher,
I too have been trying to get hold of a copy of the report.

All websites of the Islamic womens welfare council of Victoria were not operating when i tried.

Seeing the Federal Government apparently had some financial input to the report, I then tried my local MP who has since informed me that the report is not yet public. I can only presume that the Government is considering the report before releasing it.

No doubt the government will put out a response in due course.

How the Age got the story is anyones guess.

Idiots. Still pushing that brain-dead imperialist divide-and-rule toxic filth. Yawn - and spew. It's so tiring that we are still bombarded with inane references to "war", "clash of civilizations" and such rubbish. It is a simple, uncontroversial truism to remind ourselves that these actions are first and foremost of the "criminal conspiracy" nature - period. Anything else is distraction of the classic techniques of "false flag" and proxy actors.

Notice how the UK press reported the UK connections from the start, but have now back-pedalled. An exception is Mail Online's Sunday reference to Lashkar-e-Taiba: "A banned Islamic terrorist group funded with cash raised in British mosques is believed to be behind the Mumbai attacks." Earlier UK press quotes repeatedly exposed that at least seven of the attacking criminals were UK nationals - even speaking Punjabi with characteristic northern-English accents!

Same old imperialist dullards playing their games, telling themselves their geniuses as if they really achieved something sophisticated with partition and other dark schemes and secrecy. Indian Government claims against Pakistan are just part of the deal: go along with the scenario or we just get nastier imperialist sickoes to attack you even worse.

Dear Bushbasher
I understand where you 're coming from I think, and empathize with your position to a degee.
But when you say “What counts is”..... that's a subjective approach which is simply reporting how you feel about religious peoples actions. I quite agree in that when religious people do bad things.. it counts in your world.

What I'm trying to get at here, is that it is possible to determine if the religion is responsible or the people themselves, by examining those documents which the people themselves hold as their foundation for life.

The classic example would be the issue of wife beating and/or polygamy. If a Christian pastor beat his 2 wives, you don't have to go far to see that he is plain wrong.
1/

a)Husbands love your wives as your own bodies. As Christ loved the Church. And
b) An elder must be the husband of ONE wife.

2/ Islam
a) “lastly, beat them” (wives) Surah 4:34
b) You may take 4 wives. Surah 4:3

From this, we can easily determine, based on clear, unmistakable commands or permissions, behavior which is “Christian” or “Islamic” or.. not

Interpretation is not hard for clearly spelt out issues. The book of Revelation though is HARD to interpret because it is full of symbolism.

Dear Bennie...
actions only speak louder than words in terms of how they effect US....not about whether people are engaging in “un” Islamic or “un”Christian behavior. Behavior, in religion cannot be separated from their holy books.. I mean.. that should go without saying.. all religions are based on:
-A founder(s)
-A holy book(s).

Wife beating is not 'un'Islamic. Wife beating IS “un”Christian if in both cases you compare/base the behavior on the documents which these faiths claim as their foundation/reference/source of inspiration.

Kaysar's site;

http://www.speednet.com.au/~keysar/

has a link to Sharia, described thusly:

"Sharia refers to the system of guidance in Islam. There are penal provisions within Sharia, these are referred to as Hudood. The Hudood are a very small part of Sharia. The following is a reasonable summation: 95% of Sharia protects the life, safety and freedom of individuals and of society, especially women, 5% are provisions to deter those who would threaten the freedom of society".

http://www.speednet.com.au/~keysar/sharia.htm

Yet, young men who download articles on suppression of womens rights are jailed. It teaches Creationism. Derides democracy, devalues life. Perhaps I'm wrong - just as those who "misunderstood" Hilali's comments on women as meat.

When we examine the Cairo Declaration, we can see it is Allah, not human beings who benefit. Of all 7 worlds in Islamic jurisprudence, Allah resides only here. Muslims are duty bound to cover our planet with The Ummah, and until this question is resolved with tact and understanding, we shall continue to be targets of an alienated people. Muslim pain and psychology is certainly not understood within Australia. Yet, Islamic lifestyles are archaic, commonly barbaric and no - not remotely Australian.

The Declaration of human rights promotes human rights with Article 30 ensuring no article may be used to undermine another. The CD ensures Sharia is the overarching denominator. With the orchestrated attack upon human rights from Islam, following the misguided change to the mandate of the Special Rapporteur on the right to freedom of expression to focus on "abuse" of that right, "religious freedom" can cry foul no matter what the toll on women across the globe.

CDHR:
http://www.religlaw.org/interdocs/docs/cairohrislam1990.htm

UDHR:
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

Fitna:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/020472.php

Fitna Remade [by a female Muslim]:

http://www.fitna-remade.com/

And today, the faith schools who told SBS Insight that Koranic Doctrine is "identical to Australian values" go unchallenged with demonstrably fallacious and damaging claims. Recently when a British employee tried to sue his employer for "making him" handle alcohol. Grocery store assistants tend to handle stock. And yep. It was a "Sharia court" supported by the UK government.