Keysar,

Thank for sharing your views I have the following comments:

• Not sure why you mixed different touch points. For example, I am sure most Australians would like to know what the muslim community is doing about issues like divorce and/or violence against women in line with Australian stance on violence against women. On the other hand, I am not sure how men and women sharing places of worship in a mosque, church or a temple is important.

• I think the Muslim community should have a clear plan and communicate it regularly to the Australian society openly. The leadership of the community need to be open and accept criticism without feling the need to be defensive. I don't believe the existing way of not communicating then coe up with a knee-jerk reaction is in anyone's benefit.

Peace,

VK3AUU, go for it, mate.

It is so interesting that many philosophers who believe that faith is practically useless, without reason, still say that the story of the young Jesus, including the Sermon on the Mount, even if found to be a fable, is still one of the greatest stories ever told.

Personally, I am one, though greatly moved for some reason,
feel one can only hope that the love and sympathy said to be expressed by the young Jesus, could be used more during our existence than what has been expressed by later Christianity, especially after the so-called Donation of Constantine, said to have given allowance for Christians virtually to commit murder.

It is also interesting that Mahomet is said to have been very impressed by the teachings of the young Jesus.

bushbasher, some newspapers are getting it right.

"This was a stateless crime by a stateless enemy that draws its inspiration from the numerous exhortations in the Koran to wage war on infidels and expand Islam by conquest."

"Anti-Semitism has a conspicuous place in the Koran and is a central element of the new jihadist movement."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/paul-sheehan/2008/11/30/1227979840030.html?page=2

"There are hundreds of Koranic schools which could better be described as cadet schools for Islamists."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,593415,00.html

Banjo and Foxy,

Whilst acknowledging the part the west has played, and the intimidation of many women, it still does not excuse any of the "moderate" menfolk from their silent particication in violence.

As PIN mentioned, the germans simply allowed through pride the Nazis to take control, and must take responsibility for all that ensued. The muslim moderates must not simply state they are peaceful and do nothing otherwise they will pay a similar price, and have no one but themselves to blame.

We should have more contributions from the likes of Trad. Everyone's saying Muslims don't have a coordinated response to atrocities committed in their name, yet Keysar regularly provides the comment and argument we ask for. Then gets shot down in flames on OLO.

Australia, is not a secular state, like say Turkey.

Whilst religious observance is not legally or even socially enforced, anyone would observe that, based on the ancestral background of the vast majority of Australians, if we were to classify it on religious terms, it would be classified as a "Christian" country.

I figure anyone who holds their religious beliefs seriously would ‘seriously’ do the necessary social research and know, before they considered migration to Australia, of that “Christian” heritage and be accepting of the minority nature of their religious beliefs, if they were not “Christian”.

I would further consider, when extremists and terrorists are targeting and killing people most likely of a Christian backgroubnd, in the name of Islam, anyone supporting and aligning themselves with “Islam” is going to need to consider the feelings and anxieties of Christians, no differently to any Catholic Irishman who decided to visit London during the times of the IRA bombings.

One thing is certain. fundamentalism and extremism is not going to prevail in Australia and the sooner it is abandoned by supposed “Australians” of any religious background, the better .

Fundamentalist institutions like “honour killing” and enforced arranged marriages are illegal under Australian law more important, religious terrorism is also illegal. Anyone with doubt or concern about that should check before they apply to migrate here.

I predict the passions, fervor and “commitment” to fundamental Islam will die out within a couple of generations because the ignorance and bigotry upon which “fundamentalism” is dependent will be diluted by exposure to Christians, most typically through regular institutions of School, shopping malls, television etc.

No Islamic girl will accept subservience to a misogynistic and heavy handed paternalistic culture, when she sees the vast majority of her Christian peers living unfettered by draconian paternalistic dogma.

The most important thing about the Islamic community in Australia is for it to understand, it is not separate to the Australian community and if it hopes to exist in any form it must forget the ‘separation’ in which it pretends to exist