Antiseptic

It is a distortion to say that the Jews in Israel displaced the local population. That is Palestinian cant pure and simple. Turkish and British records show that the populations in Palestine were very small in the 19th century. As modern agriculture was introduced, Arabs as well as Jews moved into the area supplementing the small numbers of Arabs, and some Jews, who were already there. Displacement as I have

said in an earlier post was tragic but it also occurred amongst Jews Christians and others from Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Morocco, Lebanon, Yemen etc etc etc.

Where do you think those displaced non-Muslims should have been rehoused? Or will you show your dislike and and dismiss the truth as Zionist cant.

Re the right of return, all countries have the right to choose immigrants, The Howard government was returned with that slogan. Israel could have phrased it differently, instead of right of return they could have simply chose largely Jews in the way Australia chose to prefer the White Commonwealth. Would you have preferred that approach?

You consider that I should not feel ancestral ties with ancient with Israel despite DNA evidence. OK but that does not change my argument about Israel or give you a valid reason to regard Zionists with such dislike. And I did not call you either an antisemite or a Muslim lover. In any case what is wrong with loving Muslims?

Your arguments are all over the place your main technique is to scatter your attacks, always avoiding main issues.

I ask you again, and this is significant, what are your thoughts about the appalling and real breaches of human rights in respect of women's rights and rights of non Muslims and the killing of homosexuals in some countries? Have you any pity for these people? Do you argue on their behalf? Do you feel angry about the despotic fundamentalist regimes in Iran and elsewhere? Or the dictatorships in Saudi Arabia where they forbid Churches? These are only a short distance away from Israel, many Jews were forced out of these lands.

I ask these questions not just of you but of others who sent posts. I just want reassurance that it is not only Israel which concerns you all. And this time don't try a smokescreen of minor diversions from the argument.

Logic ,
If you listened to the ABC Radio National Sun Morning [27th] you would have heard one older Israeli say that before the Second World War Israel was predominantly for Israelis - not Jews .

It is podcast and a very interesting window on what thinking is going on .

With evidently an average 8 children per family and no compulsory army service the Fundamentalist Jerusalem Jews are evidently taking over the city .

Secular Israelis are being made feel very uncomfortable and moving out.

logic:"It is a distortion to say that the Jews in Israel displaced the local population. "
"Displacement as I have said in an earlier post was tragic but it also occurred amongst Jews Christians and others from Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Morocco, Lebanon, Yemen etc etc etc."

So, according to you it didn't happen, but if it did, it also happened elsewhere in the region, so that makes it all right. I really think you should consider a complete replacement of the propaganda machine - it appears to be terminal.

logic:"what are your thoughts about the appalling and real breaches of human rights in respect of women's rights and rights of non Muslims and the killing of homosexuals in some countries? Have you any pity for these people? Do you argue on their behalf? Do you feel angry about the despotic fundamentalist regimes in Iran and elsewhere? Or the dictatorships in Saudi Arabia where they forbid Churches?"

What does any of that have to do with Israel, except in respect of the common thread of religious fanaticism and human rights abuse? Once again your only defence is "we might be bad, but that's OK, because they're worse".

logic: "I just want reassurance that it is not only Israel which concerns you all."

If you actually read threads about topics other than Israel, you'd not have to bother asking the question, would you?

Antiseptic

Jews have been a continuing presence in the Middle East since time immemorial. The earliest known Hebrew script dates from the 11th century BC, a proto-Hebrew script predated this; Arabic script is distinctly different.

Once the modern state of Iisrael was established it became illegal in Arab States to be a Jew. Some 900,000 Jews, whose entire lineage had always been in the Middle East, were persecuted and forced to flee; everything they owned including their homes,businesses, schools, hospitals, synagogues were expropriated by Arab governments without compensation. Often they were left with nothing but the clothes on their backs.

Throughout European history, Jews were constantly expelled from one country or another, then invited back because of their expertise, then expelled again, terrorised and killed. This was supported by, and enormously rewarding for the locals as they assumed ownership of deserted Jewish properties and businesses.

Jews in England were expelled in 1290 by decree of King Edward I. Indeed, Blood Libel originated in England. In the 17th century Oliver Cromwell unmasked a tiny Jewish community, secretly practicing Judaism, and let them stay - but exploited them. The Jewish community in Britain remained minute until the late nineteenth century. The Jewish Naturalisation Act of 1753 lasted only a few months. Only in 1858 were Jews emancipated in England, and even then it was hedged with qualifications until the 1890’s.

Jews were excellent for preventing wholesale panic. Identified as the cause of outbreaks of the Black Death, they were subjected to unique, but fatal forms of “disease control”.

Jews were also star attractions at religious occasions such as autos de fé providing not only spectacular physical illumination for the onlookers, but also profound spiritual insights.

Perhaps some non-Jews thought these unpleasant, but for others these were entertainments. And Jews, never known to let anyone down, were always centre stage somewhere in Europe.

If not persecuted and murdered, Jews were discriminated against in some way - the professions permitted them, areas they could reside in, taxes. Some countries only accepted the marriage of one son within a Jewish family, as legal.

cont ...

Albeit, Russia didn't discriminate against Jews for military service; indeed lowered the age to 12 yrs - just for Jewish boys.

Where Jews were accepted, (albeit some discrimination/victimization occurred). Jews considered themselves nationals first, Jews secondly, giving loyalty, service, lives for their countries. Iron Crosses won bravely in WWI, led nazis directly to their Jewish owners - and gas-chambers.

A Polish friend told me he and his mates enjoyed a regular activity - generally after Mass - descending on Jewish areas, bashing them, destroying their property. Police did not interfere.

In WWII, German and Austrian Jewish refugees, initally granted visas, had them overturned in all British territories, when Britain entered the war ... and not just British territories. Governments forgot to inform these refugees. At least these Jews could cling to a feeble hope - even as the gas chambers clanged shut behind them. Later, Russian Jews, persecuted and killed, weren’t considered for entry into non-communist countries - paranoia of “reds under the beds”. Fortunately, Israel was there.

In 1960’s Australia, numerous workplaces wouldn’t employ Jews. On applying for a position with a national newspaper I was presented with an application form - “Jews and Catholics need not apply”. How long did this discrimination last ...

Jews are a wondrous group: satan’s spawn, g-d-killers, souces of disease, cannibals, traitors, sub-human contaminants, communists, capitalists, colonialists ... and now -

... the “well informed” explain: Israeli Jews (all 5 million) intend to take over the Middle East of 1.6 billion people. But this pales in significance with their well-known conspiracy to take over the world. Jewish total population14 million - worldwde population over 6 billion. One surmises that Jewish fetuses are being allotted extremely large territories. How very versatile are Jews - the “bogey-man” for all neurotic adults.

Antiseptic ...

Name a century in European history when Jews haven’t been persecuted and killed.

It is illegal in Arab countries for Jews to live there ... except Egypt which has about, or rather, limited to 100 ...

And you naively state that Jews do not need a homeland ...